http://www.mediaturbo.com/clients/ma...viscosity.html

here's what I was talking about...
paul

 

Thanks, BB.

 

I have rebuilt snowmobile shocks for years and if some of what I am hearing here is true it is no wonder the bikes don't ride that good. If you are pumping air into the oil it will make it foam rendering the shock useless (called fade). The air and the oil should be separated. Also the shock should be full of oil as less oil means air in the system which leads to fading. The shocks valving is accomplished by a plunger with holes in it with and a stack of flexible washers on it. As the plunger moves thru the oil the washers flex allowing oil thru the holesletting the plunger move. In a decent shock changing the stack of washers would be the best way to change the damping. Changing the wt of the oil would to some degree have similar effect but if the oil and air are separated the amount of oil should always be full with no air

 

This would be the reason why my findings are better for me then the lesser amount of fluid...
When I removed the fluid in each shock I did notice that one shock has less fluid then the other...I measured one shock in the beginning and discovered it had like 10 ozs. of fluid but when I removed the fluid from the other shock it was significantly less then the first shock...
This would also explain as to why my findings have been that when I top the fluid out and then expell it by sitting upon the bike how the ride has improved...
The only down side that I haven't found anything on is the fluids and how they react to/with air introduced...perhaps this is why the spectro seems to be working better then the Amsoil and close to the B&M ATF fluid I tried...I figured that the ATF since it was used in the transmition then the fluid shouldn't foam but for me it seemed the fluid was just a bit to heavy for my likings...
paul

 

This is really interesting to those that think the stock shocks are shot once they lose some oil like Paul's did during shipping.

Nothing like trying and testing.

Thanks Paul.

 

I went back and re-read the first post and its not complete...
So here it is in Long version...Should make a bit more sense for those interested...

let me kinda bring you guys up to speed on what I've done here...
I am no means a shock expert but I believe I know what I like in the way of a quaility ride...

1 yr. ago I purchased a set of 12" shocks from a member and when they arrived there was fluid all over the box in which they were shipped in...I seemed to remember somewhere that the fluid could be changed or at least put back in, so a search was on the way to re-confirm this...BINGO, I found what I was hoping to find along with the stock shocks are a POS and just go get a new set of Progressives...
Well as cheap as I am, I wanted to try and re-use the stock set first before I invested in a newer set due to the fact that I liked the idea of having the air to adjust the ride...

So I had the shocks in hand and found some 7.5 wt shock fluid from one of the local indy shops and and began my little adventure...First I had to drain all the old fluid out and this I found to be the most time consumming process out of the entire ordeal...I had to create a rocking motion with the shock to get the fluid out...I removed the fluid and measured it and to my amazement, the amount of fluid that I had measured wasn't the same amount that was called for on the search I did...OK no big deal it was close and there was fluid all over the box so this would account for the absence of fluid in the shock that I picked up for the experiment...

After both shocks were full and I had them on the bike and bolted in I tried to pump some air in them but had a leak so as I was fumbling with them I had some of the fluid running out all over me and the shock...never gave it a bit of thought about this...Just alittle to much...

The 12" were on now and for the last year were working beautifully and buy the way still are...Personally I didn't notice how much better the 12" shocks handled because I never got to ride the stock 12" with the factory fluid...I let my friend Karl (KDietz) ride my bike after I overhauled the front forks with the progressive system, when he returned he was in shock as to how well the bike rode with the 12" shocks on...
Fast forward a week or so he had asked for some help with his front end putting in a Raceteck system so we swapped bikes so I could get started before he arrived the following day...The evenning we swapped he had his lovely wife on the back and when he returned he commented on how much nicer the bike rode over his 13"...My reply is I dont understand Ifigured the stock 13" would out perform the stock 12" alltogether...All I did was change the fluid out to something heavier...

After getting a bit more educated on the loss of travel that 12" over the 13" had I wanted to put the 13" back on, however I didn't want the 13" stock riding height...So I ordered a 1" lowering kit form TJ Products which keep the shock angle the same as stock...I proceeded to install it right before the ride in the Rockies along with the group...I was riding alone and had the bags full and had my leathers in the touring pack and there was many times I was bottoming out...Ok I need more air...so I took it from 16# to 20# then up to 22# and still bottomed out...Now this was with just me on it...I felt like it was the dampening system in the shock that needed to be slowed down and corrected very much like I had done on the 12" unknowingly...

I when I got back I talked with Karl about the experience I had with the 13" shocks and to my surprise he was getting the same results...

Went to the indy shop where I got the 1st -7.5 wt quart and they didn't have any...Called Pipers Performance here locally and found that they had some 7.5/10wt synthetic...SWEET Just what I was looking for...Went and picked his brain on what we were doing and he confirmed that we were on the right path to improvement on the stock shocks...Personally I value what Cliff has to say due to the fact that he was Racetechs #1 shop on the west coast for like 10-12 years straight...I figure that in itself speaks for alot as far as a suspension guru...

So Saturday after we (Karl and I) each bought a quart we proceed to install it in our shocks at my house...
We started with his bike since he had 1 side of exhaust and mine had 2...1 shock would be cooler then the other on his bike...We removed the shocks and when they were on the bench we removed the quick release connection for the air line...Now the Rocking began with the shock in hand and this proved to be as slow as I rememebered it the last time I did it...(There has to be a faster more productive method)...There was if I had the fittings so I dug around while he was rocking the shock drainning the fluid slowwwly...Bingo, I found a 1/8" mpt fitting with a barb that would now attach to my mighty vac line...

Oh man, was this to prove to be a great idea...just sucked the fluid right out like nobodys buissness...
(enclosed a pic...)

After the fluid was evactated we proceed to install the new fluid in the shocks with a turkey baster...worked last time and contuned to work this time...
(enclosed a pic...)

After the fluid was at the top of the hole where the quick release fitting was removed, I applied my weight on top of it to allow it to burp and release some of the excess fluid...Very little came out...Ok now on to the next...
repeated process 3 other times because we did mine after we did his...

After the install we went for a ride...I had put 15# of air in the system and found the ride to be extremely firm, firm enough to indicate the ride quality in the lower part of my back...I released half the volume of air that was in the shocks (8#) and when I did the ride improved but still not to my liking...still a bit firmer then what I had hoped for...

Sunday My wife and I and Karl and His wife went for a ride and still with the 8# of air volume in from the day before we both rode around the DFW area and when it did bottom out it wasn't the abrupt bottoming out I had experienced but a much softer more controlled bottoming out which sat alot better with me...The ride did improve with the 2 of us on there...naturally this got me to thinking some more about the shocks and what could be done to improve the ride somemore...

Sunday and Monday I thought about this...
What I came up with was I figured I needed to remove a bit more fluid from the shocks, but I needed to remove the fluid equally...So off to ACE hardware store for some fittings...
I got 2 ea. 1/8" mpt fitting with a 1/4" compressing fitting on the other end
I got 2 ea. 1/8" mpt fitting with a 3/16" barb that would slip into the hose...
1/4 od hose 4' long

Now the mpt fitting with the barb would be attached to thehose and cap of a container while at the other end of the hose was the 1/8" mpt fitting with the compression fitting. This would be screwed into the 1/8" mpt threads where the quick release fitting would go...
Then after both adapters were made, the moment of truth became more pervailent...
I jacked the bike up and removed the quick release fitting, but I left the hose hooked up while I removed the fitting and installed the lasted creation of mine...After both were installed and snugged up, I lowered the bike...With just the weight of the bike there was fluid being pushed out into the lines and container...Then very gingerly I climbed atop the bike and sat on the seat and released yet more fluid...After I was convinced there was no more to flow out with me on it...I climbed off and removed the fittings and reinstalled the quick release fittings...
Note when I finished the volume of fluid were now equal in both shocks and I felt I knew this because the fluid in the containers were not of equal amounts...I believe there was air and some loss of fluid in the beginning which wasn't equalized...I feel that they are equal now because both valves were open and weight was applied, equally applied and uniformity was addressed...
(Enclosed a pic)

I went for a ride with 8# of air in the shocks and let me tell you what a night and day difference I just made was...
The ride was so much better then it was before...I still felt that there was a bit much air in the shocks so I released 3# and now it rides like I had hoped it would with just me on it...No bottoming out and a ride that personally I feel should be what Showa should be shooting for...

What I did with the shocks Monday with my weight applied on them I feel was I set the shocks up for me and my weight...Kinda fine tunning them and not mass producing them with a formula that would work for everybody...
Personally this should work with anyone, anysize and have a shock that is set up for him or her and not have to worry about the lack of ride the stock shocks gave but how they could be improved on and how they should feel...

Food for thought
I'm not saying this would/will work for everyone but it certainnly can't hurt and for the price of a quart and some of your time one morning it's well worth a shot before you go out and spent big $$$ on something else you may not need...
Also while we're on the subject for those of you that have access to the DB system that was such a nightmare for some...The DB system can be incorperated with the stock air shocks so you can adjust on the fly...
Thats yet another story possible to come...

 

texasbowhunter - can't imagine you are still watching this thread, but if by some miracle...... please, how did you get oil in the small orifice down in the shock with a turkey baster? i'm having to "burp" the shock to get every drop into the unit. (: al

 

I used a syringe. Just measured the right amount into a container and drew it up and squirted it right in.

One of those turkey syringes for injecting butter might work if you can't find anything at a pharmacy or medical supply place.

 

If you can get your hands on a mighty-vac it will make changing the oil easy. Mine has a small container that can be used inline and has measurement markings. Used it to suck the old oil out and see how much was in it. Then used it to suck the new oil into the shock. The container only holds a couple of ounces so you have to repeat the process a few times but worth the effort rather than drop by drop.

 

ATF??? That's the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, silly. Seriously, it's Automatic Transmission Fluid. I read where one ole boy used 30 wt. motor oil in his front forks and said it worked great. Personally, I would not mess with the fluid in the rears and leave it to the pros. After all, your bacon is riding on them and what's that worth to ya??