I've read a lot here about "Maps". I'm getting a set of Rineharttrue duals and an SE air cleaner. My best friend whois a service coordinator at our local HD shop is getting one of the wrench's to come to my house to install them for me. The wrench was telling me that no matter what anyone says you don't need a download when you change pipes. What has been your experience with a like set up and performance downloads?

Thanks.

VicDawg
07 Streetglide

 

I have a 06 SG and did the Rineharts and AC myself. My buddy who is a mechanic at a dealership said it would be too lean with only the pipes, let alone the AC too... Put stuff on bike and fired it up just to hear it, pipes was turning colors in a minute or two. I didnt turn them bad, but they startted to turn so per his advice I trailered mine to the dealer and got it dyno tuned(as best as they new how to do anyways...lol).... Turned out I ended up getting a better map from Mike S. at Latus Harley and runs real good now. I figure you will hear alot of opinions on whether you can get by without a download, I figured why risk it?

 

Sure, with the pipes alone you cold probably get away with it, but when you add the SE aircleaner you should remap the ECM or add a PCIII or some sort of fuel mangement system. Just my .02

 

What 04Harleyboy said.

 

First off, to be fair to the wrench, perhaps you're putting words in his mouth or notions in his mind? I could see him saying no ECU programming is necessary for installation of (reasonable) mufflers. Pipes can be an entirely different animal. There are three major configurations that come to mind: totally dual exhaust; dual exhaust with cross-tie; two-into-one (the stock FLH stuff is rather a combination of the last two). They all have different characteristics and are not straight-up interchangeable in a computer-controlled system that's following EPA guidelines.

It might not seem like it, but what came on the bike has been gone over with a fine-toothed comb by the manufacturer and optimized as best as possible within allowable parameters. The left and right mufflers are markedly different designs. The computer is programmed specifically by H-D for the exhaust system they provided to us after submitting the entire package to the EPA for approval. (Their "stage" downloads for different mufflers/filter-housings are also EPA-approved and are only for specific parts combinations.) Swapping out exhaust system types without re-programming the computer would at best yield non-optimum results. With the way things are regulated now, it could cause severe engine damage. The computer is not using sensors which will allow for wide-ranging control of components which vary very much from what it's expecting to be there.

There are aftermarket computers which can put some better sensors to use and thus provide a greater lee-way but the stock computer system really is relatively simple. It has to be or it could not get approval by the gov. Big brother don't want us fiddling with things...

Not only the amount of air being inducted, but the way it is at various places in the rev. range is similarly critical to the programming. The intake is not much different in broad terms than the exhaust when it comes to needing to be matched to the computer programming.

While keeping the exhaust piping the same and merely swapping out the mufflers will likely work just fine with no program changes, alterations to the pipe and/or intake configuration(s) virtually demands them.

 

You can believe one wrencher, or the conventional wisdom of thousands. I think I know what I'd do (and have already).

 

Thanks all. My "gut" told me it probably needed some sort of optimization. My last bike was a 98 FLHT (lot's of engine mods, butI was dealing with a Mikuni!)so this is a new world for me! Glad you all are here to learn from!

VicDawg

 

Hey Vic,

Not sure I'd trust that technician's advice. Let's put it this way, in the "old" days; I don't think that I would have done an aircleaner and pipe mod without rejetting the carb to handle the new set up properly. And, in the carb days, the motors were no where nearas lean from the factory.

So, guess I'm saying get a PCIII (that's what I'm using), SERT, TMax, whatever to handle the AFR.

For reference, I just put on a V&H dresser duals setup on my scoot to go along with the K&N aircleaner and Rush slip ons. Took it for a couple of shortrides to heat/shake things up to check the install and retorque bolts.

The test rideswere on the old MAP supplied by Jamie at fuelmoto. I could immediately tell it wasn't running as well as it was prior to the dual installation. Got the new map for the set up in my email the day after and installed it. Night and day difference. Bike is now running better than ever.

Based on my observation fromjust adding duals to an already better breathing intake/exhaust from the stock set up, demonstrated the need to be able to tune the EFI via some method. Pick your poison on how to get that tuning capability. Won't start that on this thread.

My 2 centavos....

Lee