Recommendations for ignition module
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Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,484
Likes: 82
From: Mountain View, California
Recommendations for ignition module
I have a 2000 FLHTCUI with Magneti Morelli fuel injection, a 100 inch kit, cams and pipes and I want to install an ignition module that will give me direct control over timing.
Suggestions on what to buy / what to stay away from?
Tips on typical gotchas etc for this project?
Suggestions on what to buy / what to stay away from?
Tips on typical gotchas etc for this project?
Last edited by Z; Aug 23, 2022 at 12:05 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,143
Likes: 11,214
From: San Diego, CA
From what I remember the DynoJet Power Commander 3 worked with the MM EFI system, but it is now discontinued... I would doubt the later versions would also be compatible with the MM EFI, but it may be worth a call to DynoJet.
While an expensive upgrade, the ThunderMax #309-313 is compatible with the '99-'01 MM EFI in the touring bikes..
https://www.thunder-max.com/Products...ms309-313.aspx
Whatever you decide on, I hope you have a friend in an adjoining state to CA.... It's almost impossible to get a vendor to send a non-EPA or CARB approved product to a CA address these days...
While an expensive upgrade, the ThunderMax #309-313 is compatible with the '99-'01 MM EFI in the touring bikes..
https://www.thunder-max.com/Products...ms309-313.aspx
Whatever you decide on, I hope you have a friend in an adjoining state to CA.... It's almost impossible to get a vendor to send a non-EPA or CARB approved product to a CA address these days...
Last edited by hattitude; Aug 24, 2022 at 11:18 AM.
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,484
Likes: 82
From: Mountain View, California
Thanks, Hat... I was looking for just an ignition module but it sounds like this would be a substantially better way to go since it has integrated auto-tune for the fuel map as well. I'll have to consider it!
And yes, being i CA does present challenges!
And yes, being i CA does present challenges!
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,484
Likes: 82
From: Mountain View, California
I have the PCIII on now, but it requires a competent dyno tuner to dial it in, and I'm eff'ing done throwing money at dyno work only to get crap results. The supposed best shop in my area tunes for max HP and TQ at WOT to give you a pretty dyno sheet, but they only gloss over the rest of the operating range. On my bike, they didn't even touch the ignition map, only the fuel map. I'd rather throw cash at an auto-tune system than spend another cent on dyno runs.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,143
Likes: 11,214
From: San Diego, CA
I have the PCIII on now, but it requires a competent dyno tuner to dial it in, and I'm eff'ing done throwing money at dyno work only to get crap results. The supposed best shop in my area tunes for max HP and TQ at WOT to give you a pretty dyno sheet, but they only gloss over the rest of the operating range. On my bike, they didn't even touch the ignition map, only the fuel map. I'd rather throw cash at an auto-tune system than spend another cent on dyno runs.
That has a been a problem for years..... There are far too many of them around... But no one seems to talk about the incompetent dyno operators...
Everybody says, "Dyno tune is the best way."
I advise, "Dyno tune by a competent dyno operator is the best way."
Many skip the part about "competent dyno operator". There are more than a few hacks out there...
Several years ago, I went to a class at DynoJet in Las Vegas. It was about tuning with a PowerVision tuner. I was the only civilian in the class. All the other students (about 24 in all) were working in the PowerSports industry. Most were currently doing dyno tuning. Most also used the DynoJet 250i dynamometer in their business.
Many were knowledgeable and seemed more than competent. There were about 4 stand outs that were obviously at the head of the class. I'd let them tune my bikes anytime, anywhere.... And yet, there were a couple that, based on their questions, had a weaker understanding of dyno tuning than I did. I remember thinking, "Good God, they have been tuning people's bikes...!"
Last edited by hattitude; Aug 24, 2022 at 04:07 PM.
Tourer
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 469
Likes: 158
From: Alberta
Peak HP and Torque look nice on a sheet but for the majority of us, we operate our bikes in the 2500--4000 rpm range day in and day out. That is the area where I would want to see improvements in torque & hp if I was spending the money to build something up. I've often thought it would be nice to see an actual true real world comparison as to how much hp&torque you actually get, for each stage of build on a stock engine, at a given rpm.. There are some combinations out there that actually cost you hp. Just food for thought, lots of stuff out there but really hard to figure out what actually works.
EFI and computers have made it much harder to change stuff on a bike,in a lot of cases. One that annoys me is they just change something exhaust/intake then throw more fuel at it, instead of actually measuring AFR at a given rpm to determine what is best for that particular engine at the altitude that it operates at. When dealing with a stock or modified carbed bikes they certainly can have a lean spot, but in a lot of cases just adjusting the mixture screw makes all the difference. When tuning that is where one should start first. If that doesn't cure the lean spot, then look at a bigger pilot jet, different needle etc. You don't have to do a plug chop, but at least ride the bike for a bit between changes, notice if there are any lean spots, have a look at the spark plugs and go from there. When tuning you are looking for a light tan color at the base of the porcelain in the spark plug.
EFI and computers have made it much harder to change stuff on a bike,in a lot of cases. One that annoys me is they just change something exhaust/intake then throw more fuel at it, instead of actually measuring AFR at a given rpm to determine what is best for that particular engine at the altitude that it operates at. When dealing with a stock or modified carbed bikes they certainly can have a lean spot, but in a lot of cases just adjusting the mixture screw makes all the difference. When tuning that is where one should start first. If that doesn't cure the lean spot, then look at a bigger pilot jet, different needle etc. You don't have to do a plug chop, but at least ride the bike for a bit between changes, notice if there are any lean spots, have a look at the spark plugs and go from there. When tuning you are looking for a light tan color at the base of the porcelain in the spark plug.
Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 632
Likes: 180
From: Menomonee Falls, Wi
I have a 2000 Heritage Springer, and for ignition only, the Crane HI 4 is excellent. Check ebay.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Mountain View, California
Thanks for the tip. Do you have carbs or Magneti Morelli fuel injection?
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Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 235
Likes: 76
From: Surrey, British Columbia . Canada
I have a 2004 RK and run the ThunderMax. There is a little bit of a learning curve but pretty easy to figure out the maps. I bought the ThunderMax because I wanted to be able to do my own tuning without spending a ton of money going to a Dyno. I was doing lots of different upgrades at different times so I would have had to take it to a tuner after every change and didn't want that. Also Dyno Tuners mostly tune for max Hp and not for everyday riding.
I have made up my own tuning map and it took awhile to get it set set just the way I like it but I am really happy with the ThunderMax. I did at first just download fuel maps off of the ThunderMax web site when I first got it. I found that most of their maps are set up for Max Hp. I started with my 88 and ran their maps and then went to a 107 and ran their maps and was not happy with them and so I started to make my own adjustments. When I went to a 110 I decided to start from scratch and made my own map and then started fine tuning that until I had it right where I liked it. The 110 runs fantastic, good fuel milage and a ton of power. Runs great throughout all the rpm ranges.
ThunderMax would be the way to go especially if you plan future upgrades. Just need a laptop. I have a laptop that is dedicated just for tuning my bike and for running Diagnostics and coding on my Audi
Bruce
I have made up my own tuning map and it took awhile to get it set set just the way I like it but I am really happy with the ThunderMax. I did at first just download fuel maps off of the ThunderMax web site when I first got it. I found that most of their maps are set up for Max Hp. I started with my 88 and ran their maps and then went to a 107 and ran their maps and was not happy with them and so I started to make my own adjustments. When I went to a 110 I decided to start from scratch and made my own map and then started fine tuning that until I had it right where I liked it. The 110 runs fantastic, good fuel milage and a ton of power. Runs great throughout all the rpm ranges.
ThunderMax would be the way to go especially if you plan future upgrades. Just need a laptop. I have a laptop that is dedicated just for tuning my bike and for running Diagnostics and coding on my Audi
Bruce
Thread Starter
|
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,484
Likes: 82
From: Mountain View, California
I have a 2004 RK and run the ThunderMax. There is a little bit of a learning curve but pretty easy to figure out the maps. I bought the ThunderMax because I wanted to be able to do my own tuning without spending a ton of money going to a Dyno. I was doing lots of different upgrades at different times so I would have had to take it to a tuner after every change and didn't want that. Also Dyno Tuners mostly tune for max Hp and not for everyday riding.
I have made up my own tuning map and it took awhile to get it set set just the way I like it but I am really happy with the ThunderMax. I did at first just download fuel maps off of the ThunderMax web site when I first got it. I found that most of their maps are set up for Max Hp. I started with my 88 and ran their maps and then went to a 107 and ran their maps and was not happy with them and so I started to make my own adjustments. When I went to a 110 I decided to start from scratch and made my own map and then started fine tuning that until I had it right where I liked it. The 110 runs fantastic, good fuel milage and a ton of power. Runs great throughout all the rpm ranges.
ThunderMax would be the way to go especially if you plan future upgrades. Just need a laptop. I have a laptop that is dedicated just for tuning my bike and for running Diagnostics and coding on my Audi
Bruce
I have made up my own tuning map and it took awhile to get it set set just the way I like it but I am really happy with the ThunderMax. I did at first just download fuel maps off of the ThunderMax web site when I first got it. I found that most of their maps are set up for Max Hp. I started with my 88 and ran their maps and then went to a 107 and ran their maps and was not happy with them and so I started to make my own adjustments. When I went to a 110 I decided to start from scratch and made my own map and then started fine tuning that until I had it right where I liked it. The 110 runs fantastic, good fuel milage and a ton of power. Runs great throughout all the rpm ranges.
ThunderMax would be the way to go especially if you plan future upgrades. Just need a laptop. I have a laptop that is dedicated just for tuning my bike and for running Diagnostics and coding on my Audi
Bruce
The only down-side I see to going with the ThunderMax is that I (believe) that I then become locked into the existing Magneti Morelli FI system on my 2000. If I later decide to do a Delphi upgrade or switch to carbs, I think the T-Max controller will become a thousand dollar brick (though I suppose I could sell it.) I'm still very strongly leaning toward it tho. I had an engine failure a few years back that led to a rebuild with some performance upgrades and the bike has *never* run acceptably well since, even after two dyno sessions.