Hey Guys and Gals, I seem to be having a bit of difficulty contacting my TM dealer. maybe some of you would know an answer to my question. Over around this last year I was able to slowly acquire parts for the mods I made to my 03 FLHRCI. The bike was running good but cam chain tensioners got inspected by "ME" and there was wear, not horrible but at 31k.why chance getting every last nickels worth and risk paying for it the hard way. Got my bits and pieces together and the old "Well, while I'm in this deep" finished a nice little up grade. A few weeks went by and found there was no getting around A Tuner. During that short time I would start the bike for warm ups and and savor the sound of the new cams The previous 19 years the bike would cold start on the 2nd push of the button sometimes 3rd. After the upgrade it would fire and be running before my thumb was off the button 1st time every time cold or hot. After installing the Tuner the cold starts are back to mostly 2nd and sometimes 3rd try and hot starts 1st time. I was wondering what adjustments I could make to timing, fuel etc. to get it back to firing on the 1st poke of the button? The auto tune feature is learning and doing well, running better each time out. This is, I'm sure no big issue, I just got spoiled with the 1x cold starts and curious if there is value or 2 that could dial that back in. ANY THOUGHTS welcomed.

 

read this first.

https://www.thunder-max.com/techdocs...ingIssues1.pdf

If there is any chance the bike went into a low voltage situation, reset the zero position on the throttle bu the reset procedure.

I have had a TMax in my bike for almost 10 years, 03 TC88 with S&S 509 gear drive cams and sometimes when it is very hot it gets fussy on restart but on cold starts it has been great

What map are you using.... exact for the cam or are you using a base map based on cam overlap and duration numbers.... finding something close and letting it self tune from there

 

I don't have an answer for you but you should contact thundermax directly. Those guys are great to work with , quick with help and update maps.

 

Thanks for getting back to this for me. Battery, Likely good. It lives on the Battery Tender when not running. I'm on Map #2, #1 from the original seller and #2 was unsolicited from another TMax dealer that was the mfg. of the cams I installed. When I contacted them re: a different issue re: the Pop stopper, which by the way is working very well, not letting air back up the left pipe on the stock exhaust pipe setup causing aggrivating decel pop. With their shipping cost, I just made my own. .. While running and connected to the module, it shows 13.8.v. Other than the cold starts only it's running good. However the cam showing in the Map was not close to the one I have installed. It's funny that the original H/D ECM in use before I got the Tmax would fire up hot or cold real quick. That was only in use a short time until I got the tuner, and didn't ride the bike until the Tmax was installed and ready to ride to start the auto tune changes. My cams are RS511 with 510 lift in and out. and 238 duration on both.
I'm sure I seem a bit fussy with this cold start only issue but for the price and reputation of this rig I was hoping for better up front to start with. I did contact the original seller by email to support on the 21st and a follow up call on the 22nd so it's been 6 days now but to be fair there was a weekend {2} days. I pulled up the map values and the cam is showing is a 577 which seems a bit off from that I had told them {dealer #2} I had.. 577 lift and 552 duration is , well,, way more than my 511 cams specs. It may be a good idea to contact Tmax at this point. I was just hoping there might be a quick adjustment to fuel or/and timing for my little issue. I'll lok again at the hard start section, Thanks .
PS: what should the zero position on the throttle be {0}? or is there a better value for that to be?

 

1. being on a battery tender only means that the battery probably isn't dead. That's about it..
2. No such thing as a 552 duration cam..

Going direct to thundermax should get you some good support but first you need to figure out what map you are running. Let us know.. You should be running something close to 769 should be a good starting point.

So the tuner was installed after the cams?

What exhaust are you running?

 

So sorry, it was late. Duration 252 not 552 on the cam I saw listed while "linked". I'll do more checking on the battery, but the dilemma arose only after installing the TMax. Even though it does not start after hitting the start switch 1st time but by usually the 2nd or no more than 3rd time cold. The starter is spinning and rolling over the engine what seems to be normal fast and hard. The Map is; [FileBaseMap {#NA}:HC_88RS511SLPONS} Module Type=EFI Closed Loop. I was having a bad decel popping after the tuner install and an Indie shop I hang around at sometimes is a Zippers dealer. He suggested Zippers Pop Stopper for the left side of the stock pipes to prevent or lessen the chance air was backing up that side as the majority of the exhaust exits the right side anyway. He did warn me of their shipping costs. I emailed Zippers to try and get that shipping cost down to reasonable and they started asking questions. Like bike, year, engine, mods etc then just sent their map I hadn't asked for but got anyway, free. I had never ran into that decel pop before and had not happened before or after the mods were done prior to installing the Tmax. That 4.00 part was well over 32 or 38.00 to ship. I made one from an engine freeze plug took a 42.5mm plug, ground down the outside lip until I got a snug fit with only a light tap or 2 to set it in the bottom of pipe where the slipon clamps. Prior to the install I drilled a 5/8 hole center to allow what little exhaust out that exits that side and that CURED the decel pop issue. Since I was having trouble finding a brass freeze plug near the necessary size I got the steel plug and sprayed with VHT and cured it before install, wanted to try to keep it from rusting in place. I've only ran out 1 & 1/2 tanks of gas and Auto tune is making changes and running well and supprisingly strong from what I was used to with stock cams. Running many variations from interstate to back roads here in the mountains and some city driving too. I was hoping to find an area or 2 that would be best to start and make a couple of minor changes to see if that would cure the fireup {issue} if it can even be called an issue. Starting places, and I'm guessing here, IAC or Cranking Fuel time ,or Initial Fuel Pulse.
I was hoping that since this is a seemingly more minor issue I would like to stick my toe in the water, so to speak and find and adjustment that might cure the ill. I have seen one fairly good video of someone going through and changing many values in timing, fuel and so on in their MAP. I'm not there just yet but I have looked over Map list available in the module and the closest one or 2 I saw under the cam list was the 525 which may be closer to what I have. I'll look over your suggested MAP and see how it matches up to my set up. Also I had installed a set of cheap SHARK ROAD mufflers, seem to be almost straight pipes. I'll send a pic, you'll notice the pop device way back inside. If you have any best guess where I might start with a few minor adjustments to things I may have mentioned or missed feel free to share. The bike is runnng so well I just hate to start over this process if a tweek here and there would do the trick.

[i]I'm not sure if you could even call that baffels?

 

So Zippers sent you the map? If they sent you the map, then use it and you can tweak it a little.. Their maps are typically quite good. Starting issues are not to hard to optimize. One thing to note in the module settings, what is the injector timing set to..

The pop stop is needed if you are running stock head pipes. It will help with tuning. Your mod is fine.

Did you weld in the sensor bungs or simply use 07/08 head pipes?

While you will likely need some small tweaks to the map to increase starting speed, you want to do a fuel pressure check. A leaky internal fuel line will drop pressure and make starting hard.

 

Thanks for the positive feed back. Late last night I had been looking over older threads and saw where you were helping a guy with a similar issue back in 2014. Was hoping you might chime in. Started out as FM MAP. At that time I wasn't looking for anything but pop stop input. I did look that over in the TM program and TM's fix didn't look promising, finally had the problem explained to me. I only have an Oxy/Acet. rig that can do brazing so I figured what the heck, in for a penny in for a pound. I found a full rt. side stock exhaust off an 08 with the 8mm bungs in place. They actually looked good, no rust, repairs or dents and bangs. 199.00 + free shipping off ebay. they fit like a glove. I had recently priced the rear "Y" pipe for my stock 03, no o2 ports at my local H/D dealer. He got a worried tone in his voice, said that part had a variant change from "B" to now "C" also back ordered till Feb. and would be 400.00 for just that 1 pipe, so at this point I think I stole those pipes. As previously stated, still no reply from FM. I emailed through their support section and later spoke to someone, said he saw it in the "IN" box but the Tech that could help me was tuning another bike. I can understand all that but now nearing a week with no reply, think I'll keep the clock running and see how long that reply takes. Since you have had some experience with TM I was curious. When the tuner arrived it was packaged but the ECM didn't have that "Fresh from the factory Look" also the 02 sensors were somewhat discolored at the tips and what appeared to be a copperish color antiseeze maybe? up the threads under the nut. Is that a normal practice, maybe hooked up to test before shipping out? I'm no expert but I thought loading a MAP would be all that was done?
I've spent so much time on this deal espically in these later stages I seem to have neglected my "Honey Do List" I'll get back to working on those adjustments in a few days and check back, if I don't add too much here and there and shoot a rod up through the gas tank, or worse, depending on which cylinder launches it,, Ha
Thanks again

I always get it fixed but sometimes the fix looks more like this

 

The 02 sensors will be discolored and will have copper anti seize dabbed on the threads . If the ends have clean, they haven't been run.

You should have bought an aftermarket head pipe like SnS or Kromewerks. It would have cost about the same and been a better pipe.

I would guess some get lucky with the installed map. I don't really know.. I typically tweak the maps.. Early maps needed tweaking more than some of the later ones.

Try to break your thoughts into separate paragraphs..

 

Yeah, I sometimes get ahead of my self.