Dynoed the 98 kit saturday
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,939
Likes: 3
From: TX
You need to have it "tuned", not just "dynoed". I don't think I saw mention of year model bike or carb vs. EFI. ASSumming EFI, 11 pulls does not get it tuned.
My HQ98" made 113/111, so I'm pretty sure there's more in it. I have zero experience with that cam, so can't comment on expectation....
My HQ98" made 113/111, so I'm pretty sure there's more in it. I have zero experience with that cam, so can't comment on expectation....
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Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 616
Likes: 1
From:
Thanks for all the imput, my bike is a 2006 Ultra
Here is the kit I got
Specs for the 98 inch kit:
Forged JE pistons with rings, clips and pins. This is no off the shelf piston but a true custom made piston for us. We made these piston to allow much less machining of the head surface as they are offered in a 3 cc dome
R&R 525 cam and install kit
Complete MLS top end gasket kit
New guides taperedand diamond honed
New viton seals
New Ferrea 1.9 intake valve
New Manley 1.625 exhaustcut down to ( that allows a 80% margin= great for flow) full radius valve job
Milled to a correct CC for a 9.8.1 compression ratio
New springs with seat pressure set for the cams
LMR2 bypass spring
Specs on cams
525 Gear Drive Cam Set - 1999 - 2006
Grind: rr525
Timing: 19/39 intake, 47/15 exhaust
Duration @ .053: 236/240
Lift: .525 intake, .525 exhaust
T.D.C. Lift: .171 intake, .153 exhaust
I use a PCIII and the dyno was a dynojet
I also have 3 maps from GMR for this kit so when I got there it was real close on the map. The tuner found 3hp and 2 tq in the end.
I was happy with the $30 for all the time they spent but I could be happier with the results.
I have a 1968 Barracuda with a 416 stroker motor so I have spent some time on a chasis dyno over the years. Those guys are $150 an hour so $30 for even a bad tune is a bargain. At least I know I'm not to fat or to lean. I do have some piece of mind that way.
The three kits he sent me the maps from were PCIII maps so the power commander should have the ability to tune over the 100 mark.
Here is the kit I got
Specs for the 98 inch kit:
Forged JE pistons with rings, clips and pins. This is no off the shelf piston but a true custom made piston for us. We made these piston to allow much less machining of the head surface as they are offered in a 3 cc dome
R&R 525 cam and install kit
Complete MLS top end gasket kit
New guides taperedand diamond honed
New viton seals
New Ferrea 1.9 intake valve
New Manley 1.625 exhaustcut down to ( that allows a 80% margin= great for flow) full radius valve job
Milled to a correct CC for a 9.8.1 compression ratio
New springs with seat pressure set for the cams
LMR2 bypass spring
Specs on cams
525 Gear Drive Cam Set - 1999 - 2006
Grind: rr525
Timing: 19/39 intake, 47/15 exhaust
Duration @ .053: 236/240
Lift: .525 intake, .525 exhaust
T.D.C. Lift: .171 intake, .153 exhaust
I use a PCIII and the dyno was a dynojet
I also have 3 maps from GMR for this kit so when I got there it was real close on the map. The tuner found 3hp and 2 tq in the end.
I was happy with the $30 for all the time they spent but I could be happier with the results.
I have a 1968 Barracuda with a 416 stroker motor so I have spent some time on a chasis dyno over the years. Those guys are $150 an hour so $30 for even a bad tune is a bargain. At least I know I'm not to fat or to lean. I do have some piece of mind that way.
The three kits he sent me the maps from were PCIII maps so the power commander should have the ability to tune over the 100 mark.
Last edited by 2006ultra; Oct 14, 2008 at 07:52 AM.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,939
Likes: 3
From: TX
That's certainly "not bad" for $30.
However, I'm sure you spent enough $$ on that GMR build to justify a real tune, even if it cost $300 or $500.
Do not mis-inturpret (sp?) what you see on the dyno sheet with regard to AFR. What you see there represents AFR ONLY at WFO ~ 100% throttle. It could VERY easily still be fat or lean in the conditions you spend 99.x% of your riding time.Both conditions are bad... too lean = way hot & obvious issues associated with that. Too fat can can actually be even WORSE, as excess fuel will cleanse the oil from your cylinder walls that is intended to lube the pistons as they work. In addition to that, as the fuel makes it way past the rings (as it does on fat conditions), it will begin to contaminate your oil.
Do yourself a favor & get it properly tuned.
It will ride better (I could care less about "numbers"), last longer, and you will be taking full advantage of your investment.
Ideally, get yourself a SERT, SuperTuner, or TTS and find a competent tuner to make it right.
Good luck!
However, I'm sure you spent enough $$ on that GMR build to justify a real tune, even if it cost $300 or $500.
Do not mis-inturpret (sp?) what you see on the dyno sheet with regard to AFR. What you see there represents AFR ONLY at WFO ~ 100% throttle. It could VERY easily still be fat or lean in the conditions you spend 99.x% of your riding time.Both conditions are bad... too lean = way hot & obvious issues associated with that. Too fat can can actually be even WORSE, as excess fuel will cleanse the oil from your cylinder walls that is intended to lube the pistons as they work. In addition to that, as the fuel makes it way past the rings (as it does on fat conditions), it will begin to contaminate your oil.
Do yourself a favor & get it properly tuned.
It will ride better (I could care less about "numbers"), last longer, and you will be taking full advantage of your investment.Ideally, get yourself a SERT, SuperTuner, or TTS and find a competent tuner to make it right.
Good luck!
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Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 616
Likes: 1
From:
I agree with you on everything you said.
I plan on getting the real deal when I can find the time to go. Unfortunately I have a 600 mile trip this weekend so I have to go as is.
All the pulls were at WOT so I know I could be lean or rich at 65mph. I have been watching the plugs and so far so good. I will index the plugs on the trip after a say 20 mile run between stops. I know a place I can hit the kill switch at 65mph and coast into a safe area to pull the plugs again to check them.
I've spent some time in the dyno shops in the past with the Cuda and I know there's a chance this kit will make the claimed numbers but after watching the last guy make his changes with no response it's unlikely. Again no bashing on GMR but I don't think my set up as is will pick up 10/10+.
Thats just my opinion.
I plan on getting the real deal when I can find the time to go. Unfortunately I have a 600 mile trip this weekend so I have to go as is.
All the pulls were at WOT so I know I could be lean or rich at 65mph. I have been watching the plugs and so far so good. I will index the plugs on the trip after a say 20 mile run between stops. I know a place I can hit the kill switch at 65mph and coast into a safe area to pull the plugs again to check them.
I've spent some time in the dyno shops in the past with the Cuda and I know there's a chance this kit will make the claimed numbers but after watching the last guy make his changes with no response it's unlikely. Again no bashing on GMR but I don't think my set up as is will pick up 10/10+.
Thats just my opinion.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,396
Likes: 146
From:
It's really not relevant to compare H.P. and Tq. numbers from one dyno to another. Dynos vary, the temperature, humidity, altitude are all factors that can cause a difference. If one bike was dynoed immediatly after the first on the same dyno then it might mean something. Peak numbers aren't the most critical it's the curve that gets you ahead of the crowd. Also with under 10:1 compression and if that 525 is the lift of the cams high 90's seems about right. The real issue is how does it run?
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Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 616
Likes: 1
From:
If looking at my specs tells you that high 90's is about right then I'm not going to be a happy camper. I know guys who get high 90's spend a LOT less than what I did. That would also confirm what the tuner said too.
I know that different dyno's and conditions mean a lot if your chasing a number. What concerns me is the fact that I watched the tuner change fuel curves and timing curves and the motor did nothing to speak of.
That might indicate that going to another dyno could be a waste of money?
I spent the extra money so I could get a real 100+++ motor combo. It's starting to look like I could have spent half of what I spent at the harely shop with my 20% discount and got what I got now.
The bike runs good and the TQ curve is 90+ from 2500rpm to 5500rpm which is good. Obviously it runs better than before but and extra 10 foot pounds of TQ would make a huge difference in the fun factor.
I will see if I can get the dyno sheet posted. Hold on.
I know that different dyno's and conditions mean a lot if your chasing a number. What concerns me is the fact that I watched the tuner change fuel curves and timing curves and the motor did nothing to speak of.
That might indicate that going to another dyno could be a waste of money?
I spent the extra money so I could get a real 100+++ motor combo. It's starting to look like I could have spent half of what I spent at the harely shop with my 20% discount and got what I got now.
The bike runs good and the TQ curve is 90+ from 2500rpm to 5500rpm which is good. Obviously it runs better than before but and extra 10 foot pounds of TQ would make a huge difference in the fun factor.
I will see if I can get the dyno sheet posted. Hold on.
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Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 616
Likes: 1
From:
This was the second and best pull, there were 11 total. I know the A/F is a little wacked but he did flaten it but the bike didn't like it.
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,449
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From: Roswell, GA
2006Ultra, for whatever reason, canned maps from well tuned performance builds don't always transfer well from bike to bike. I sure can't explain it, but Kevin from Head-Quarters is a good friend of mine, an outstanding tuner, and he provides maps for HQ builds to retail customers of HQ. Invariably, the customer believes (even though told otherwise) that just loading the map will "get them their numbers." Now Kevin has personally tuned these builds and knows they're good, but for whatever reason, they don't always transfer well from one bike to another, one dyno to another, etc.
Typically, the customer calls Kevin, and Kevin ends up having to teach the tuner how to tune--giving the bike what the bike wants. And the HQ builds invariably make the numbers with some tuning.
PhilM has already said what needed to be said as far as getting the bike a real dyno tune. He has also given you excellent advice regarding a better fuel managment device than a PCIII.
So, you can either get a good dyno tune using the GMR-supplied maps as a starting point, or continue to be disappointed--your call, as always.
Last observation--PEAK numbers are a poor, at best, indicator of the quality of a build for a bagger street build. You can get peak numbers with relatively little headwork, some cams, a serious bump in compression, and a good pipe. But the bike will be slower than a build with a nice, flat torque line with complimentary components and a quality tune that has lower peak numbers. The true power of the bike will be reflected in the area under the torque line--hence the flatter torque line creates more area under the curve than a mountain peak shaped torque line. But you already knew all of this.
Good luck with your trip and hope you find a good solution.
Typically, the customer calls Kevin, and Kevin ends up having to teach the tuner how to tune--giving the bike what the bike wants. And the HQ builds invariably make the numbers with some tuning.
PhilM has already said what needed to be said as far as getting the bike a real dyno tune. He has also given you excellent advice regarding a better fuel managment device than a PCIII.
So, you can either get a good dyno tune using the GMR-supplied maps as a starting point, or continue to be disappointed--your call, as always.
Last observation--PEAK numbers are a poor, at best, indicator of the quality of a build for a bagger street build. You can get peak numbers with relatively little headwork, some cams, a serious bump in compression, and a good pipe. But the bike will be slower than a build with a nice, flat torque line with complimentary components and a quality tune that has lower peak numbers. The true power of the bike will be reflected in the area under the torque line--hence the flatter torque line creates more area under the curve than a mountain peak shaped torque line. But you already knew all of this.
Good luck with your trip and hope you find a good solution.
