Big Bore Debate
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Tourer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 266
Likes: 3
From: Marion, OH
Big Bore Debate
Hi all well I am still in debate about who to have do a 103 kit for me. I have talked to 2 different dealers that are taking 2 different approaches.
Dealer 1) Complete install of Screamin Eagle kit as comes from harley 103 jugs, se flat top pistons, 255 cams, and SE clutch spring, adjustable puch rods, sert, and dyno using my slip on mufflers and SE intake. This dealer does 10-20 big bores a year with a good track record from what I can tell. The dealer is Hales in Mansfield, OH. Price - $1,950.00 out the door.
Dealer 2) Complete 103 install parted individually my jugs bored to 103 by them, they recommend compression releases and new valve springs so those are included, SE clutch spring, adjustable push rods, estimate included 255 cams for comparison but cams would be my choice (ie - might get better power from broader cam choice), sert and dyno using my mufflers and SE intake. This dealer does lots of builds but not very may smaller builds like this they do mre high end builds. The dealer is Lima HD in Lima, OH. Price $2,700 plus fluids of my choice out the door.
$700 is big price difference but I am getting new valve springs, compression releases and the ability to chose whatever cam I want. What would you guys do. I know I should look at HQ but I have decided that I do not have the time or the ability to do an at home build right now. Any help would be appreciated as well as cam reccomendations. I am using the SE intake and Fuel Moto Custom Tuned Rush muffler right now.
Thanks
Phil
Dealer 1) Complete install of Screamin Eagle kit as comes from harley 103 jugs, se flat top pistons, 255 cams, and SE clutch spring, adjustable puch rods, sert, and dyno using my slip on mufflers and SE intake. This dealer does 10-20 big bores a year with a good track record from what I can tell. The dealer is Hales in Mansfield, OH. Price - $1,950.00 out the door.
Dealer 2) Complete 103 install parted individually my jugs bored to 103 by them, they recommend compression releases and new valve springs so those are included, SE clutch spring, adjustable push rods, estimate included 255 cams for comparison but cams would be my choice (ie - might get better power from broader cam choice), sert and dyno using my mufflers and SE intake. This dealer does lots of builds but not very may smaller builds like this they do mre high end builds. The dealer is Lima HD in Lima, OH. Price $2,700 plus fluids of my choice out the door.
$700 is big price difference but I am getting new valve springs, compression releases and the ability to chose whatever cam I want. What would you guys do. I know I should look at HQ but I have decided that I do not have the time or the ability to do an at home build right now. Any help would be appreciated as well as cam reccomendations. I am using the SE intake and Fuel Moto Custom Tuned Rush muffler right now.
Thanks
Phil
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,939
Likes: 3
From: TX
Phil ~
The "magic bullet" to this is using a collection of components that are known (or even designed) to work very well together and are do so repeatedly.
I would propose that "what YOU are after" really dictates which direction to go.
If a moderate increase in power, particularly on the bottom end, is what you are after then the 1st option will give you that.
If you are after more than a moderate increase, then option 2 might be a better solution. The "red flag" on that one is that it is not well defined ~ t least as you have communicated it. Compression releases certainly help ease starting as displacement & compression increase so that is a good addition. Springs alone will not really do that much for ya, because bigger cams that utilize those springs really also need head work (porting).
As far as HQ & time constraints, there is really no difference using HQ or HD. You can pay a core fee (deposit) and they will send you the entire package and refund the core fee when you send the stuff back. Based on what you said about shop #2, I am sure bet they would install it for ya...
The "magic bullet" to this is using a collection of components that are known (or even designed) to work very well together and are do so repeatedly.
I would propose that "what YOU are after" really dictates which direction to go.
If a moderate increase in power, particularly on the bottom end, is what you are after then the 1st option will give you that.
If you are after more than a moderate increase, then option 2 might be a better solution. The "red flag" on that one is that it is not well defined ~ t least as you have communicated it. Compression releases certainly help ease starting as displacement & compression increase so that is a good addition. Springs alone will not really do that much for ya, because bigger cams that utilize those springs really also need head work (porting).
As far as HQ & time constraints, there is really no difference using HQ or HD. You can pay a core fee (deposit) and they will send you the entire package and refund the core fee when you send the stuff back. Based on what you said about shop #2, I am sure bet they would install it for ya...
Club Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,481
Likes: 4
From: Georgia
Not to change the subject but I understand from reading Donny Petersen's Twin Cam book the heads are the weak spot in the performance equation. The 96 has the same heads/valves as the 88 and it was only marginal as to flow capacity on the 88. Adding more cubes does not seem to be the thing when you could get the valves and ports done and maybe see some real torque increases.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 577
Likes: 4
Phil, tough decision. I would make sure you understand what the deliveable is and what is covered. There are lots of threads on this.
Apparantly, some 103" motors have a hard starting problem, perhaps requiring a compression release.
see this thread, from a good friend of mine
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...-starting.html
good luck
greg
Apparantly, some 103" motors have a hard starting problem, perhaps requiring a compression release.
see this thread, from a good friend of mine
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...-starting.html
good luck
greg
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,149
Likes: 0
Personally If the Second one comes with Head work I would go with it, there is also a SE Stage IV Kit which uses a different Throttle Body and Different Cams in the HD SE Parts book that I hear is Nice which the Dealer will do.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,112
Likes: 40
From: Boise Idaho
I may be missing something here, everyone keeps saying that the 96" heads are the same as the 88" engines and they aren't I have had several 88's apart and the exhaust ports are smaller than a Sportster has and my 96" has a a full size exhaust port.
As far as the question I would go with the first guy I can't see needing the compression releases or the valve springs for what you are building and almost all Harley dealers will put in a cam other than a Harley cam if you ask as long as it's not something crazy.
As far as the question I would go with the first guy I can't see needing the compression releases or the valve springs for what you are building and almost all Harley dealers will put in a cam other than a Harley cam if you ask as long as it's not something crazy.
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Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 891
Likes: 1
From: Nor Cal
Man I wish I had your dilema. Mines is, will I ever have the money to even come up with the idea to do a build like that so I can pop a wheelie easily like PhilM does.....hee hee
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Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,663
Likes: 7
From: Northeast Ohio
The heads changed in 06 and are a bit better, but the heads are where the real gains can come from with the proper cams. Check the HQ website, you can price your whole kit. No need to buy new cylinders, HQ or most local dealers can bore them for you at half the cost of new. Phil said it right, bet your local dealer will install the kit, especially this time of year when things are slow, and in this manner you get a proven performer. You might also call around as a lot of HD dealers are also HQ dealers.
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 325
Likes: 2
I have been looking at the HQ 107ST build. Based on the information from guys on this forum it is the biggest bang for the buck that includes reliability. The Harley builds just don't produce the same results and in a lot of cases cost as much or more. When I upgrade in the Spring, I want it to be well over 100HP and 110 TQ. The SE builds don't produce that kind of performance. For me anyway, I would always be questioning not getting what I really wanted and then selling the bike to get what I wanted in the first place. My $.02.