Is it really necessary?
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Stage III
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Bonney Lake, Washington
Is it really necessary?
Ok so I have a 2009 FLHX with Vance and Hines regular slip-on ovals, stock air cleaner. The temperatures in my home state of Seattle WA. averages in the 60 to 75 degree range in the summer with some occasional 80 85 degree spikes. Is it the general consciences of the members of this Forum that my engine could suffer damage from over heating due to the OEM air/fuel ratio of 14:7.1. Its my understanding that the ECU is capable of readjusting a small change such as slip-ons as long as the air cleaner remains stock. Does every fuel injected Harley since 2006 need a fuel modifier to control engine heat? If this is true there are going to be a lot of fried engines every summer.
To have to spend big $$$$$ to adjust fuel mixture from 14:71 to 13:8.1 is crazy!
To have to spend big $$$$$ to adjust fuel mixture from 14:71 to 13:8.1 is crazy!
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28,473
Likes: 3,950
From: Vermont
If you are talking about a tuner like a PC V, Race Tuner, etc. then you do not necessarily need it with just the slip ons and stock A/C. You can get some IED's that will enrichen the mixture and change your ratio. Those are like $80 for the pair. However, it does help with the heat and power when you add a tuner and a good dyno tune.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,356
Likes: 8
From: Roswell, NM
I'm running mine stock except for slipons haven't noticed anything but better sound, no more heat than normal. I might add a PCIII one day, but am in no hurry, just enjoying the bike right now.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,639
Likes: 2
From: Australia
You dont need a tuner at "Stage 1".
"Normally the installation of an air cleaner and performance mufflers will not cause any tuning problems for stock closed loop fuel injection systems as they can easily accommodate the extra fuel requirements". S&S Cat pg 5-22.
You can safely change pipes and AC without doing anything at all. The whole thing about needing a tuner as soon as you change pipes and AC is a cash grab.
There might be a minor performance gain by adjusting AF ratio or timing, but considering how conservative the cams are I would not put $$$ into a tuner.
"Normally the installation of an air cleaner and performance mufflers will not cause any tuning problems for stock closed loop fuel injection systems as they can easily accommodate the extra fuel requirements". S&S Cat pg 5-22.
You can safely change pipes and AC without doing anything at all. The whole thing about needing a tuner as soon as you change pipes and AC is a cash grab.
There might be a minor performance gain by adjusting AF ratio or timing, but considering how conservative the cams are I would not put $$$ into a tuner.
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 273
Likes: 2
From: NW Arkansas
I ran mine with the Rinehart slip-ons for several months with the stock air cleaner and no tune. I heard from many that I was doing damage to the motor and it was running excessively lean, but it ran great. I didn't see an increase in heat as other say, but I mainly spend my time moving and not sitting in parking lots or stoplights.
I just purchased a RSD air cleaner and knew that I'd want to adjust the fuel curves on it, so I ordered a PC-V and Auto tune modules. With the Power commander software, positive numbers equate to adding fuel and negative numbers equate to subtracting fuel at the given RPM. I was expecting to see the base map data with all positive numbers because that means it's enriching the fuel mixture. To my surprise, it only had positive numbers in the mid range and negative numbers up top. If the bike runs so lean, why would you pull fuel from it??
To sum it up, I've never heard of anyone screwing up an engine because they added slip ons and didn't remap. I've asked for proof and have never received it. The Power Commander did make a noticeable difference in the power and drivability so I do highly recommend it. Did it turn the SG into a sport bike, not a chance...
I just purchased a RSD air cleaner and knew that I'd want to adjust the fuel curves on it, so I ordered a PC-V and Auto tune modules. With the Power commander software, positive numbers equate to adding fuel and negative numbers equate to subtracting fuel at the given RPM. I was expecting to see the base map data with all positive numbers because that means it's enriching the fuel mixture. To my surprise, it only had positive numbers in the mid range and negative numbers up top. If the bike runs so lean, why would you pull fuel from it??
To sum it up, I've never heard of anyone screwing up an engine because they added slip ons and didn't remap. I've asked for proof and have never received it. The Power Commander did make a noticeable difference in the power and drivability so I do highly recommend it. Did it turn the SG into a sport bike, not a chance...
Thread Starter
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Stage III
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Bonney Lake, Washington
Good responses guys and truthful answers. Im really tired of people pushing products. I also have not noticed any issues as a result of installing my after market slip-ons. I did however question whether the ECU would be capable of self adjusting back to the OEM AFR 14:7.1 or if it would cause a leaner mixture the result of going beyond the ECU capabilities. I sure would like to hear from someone who has changed both pipes (slip-ons) and air cleaner and knew what their AFR was without the addition of a fuel enrichment devise. If I knew for sure those changes would still keep in the stock setting range, Id save myself $800.00 to $1,000.00 for a PC-V or Race Tuner.
I can live with the slightly lean touchy/sensitive throttle response above idle, and the fuel mileage is a plus, but I dont want to add a Screaming Eagle air cleaner if the end result is leaner then the factory setting.
Any one have first hand knowledge?
P.S. $800 dollars for a 7 to 10 hp gain is not a bargain with a Harley. I didnt buy this bike to race it or I would have kept my BMW K1200 GT or MV Agusta.
The slip-ons were for improved sound while the desire for the SE air cleaner would be to just improve efficiency.
Lol Besides who are we going to race with a Harley Dresser; another Dresser?
I've been told by an ex-Harley mech. that all that is needed with slip-ons and SE air cleaner is a simple $125.00 download at the Dealer that takes less than an hour, minutes actually.
I can live with the slightly lean touchy/sensitive throttle response above idle, and the fuel mileage is a plus, but I dont want to add a Screaming Eagle air cleaner if the end result is leaner then the factory setting.
Any one have first hand knowledge?
P.S. $800 dollars for a 7 to 10 hp gain is not a bargain with a Harley. I didnt buy this bike to race it or I would have kept my BMW K1200 GT or MV Agusta.
The slip-ons were for improved sound while the desire for the SE air cleaner would be to just improve efficiency.
Lol Besides who are we going to race with a Harley Dresser; another Dresser?
I've been told by an ex-Harley mech. that all that is needed with slip-ons and SE air cleaner is a simple $125.00 download at the Dealer that takes less than an hour, minutes actually.
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