Gear drive issues???
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 723
Likes: 62
From: Cape Cod, Ma.
The stock cam plate had some scouring at the mating surface of the oil pump and the pump itself had some scouring inside. The reason I even pulled it aprt in the first place was because of eratic oil pressure readins I was getting. That is when I dicovered the shot tensioner shoe. It was worn down to the metal frame and almost to the rivot holding it all together. I figured that a nice strong billet plate would remove any issues LOL. If you go back and look I posted the pictures of the cam plate and shoes back in the fall when I pulled it apart for the first time.
I checked both runout and gear back lash. The runout was just over .002", within spec for the runout. The lash was also within spec and if I remember was just on the high end of spec. The thought process for the larger gear was that if the cam plate was expanding more than the cast plate would maybe the lash would also increase more. If that happens I would assume (yes I know what happens when we do that) that the gears would than make noise as the pressures on the cams switch from side to side as the valves open and close. If I went with the larger pinion gear the lash might be tight when cold, but, in theory it would be within spec when warm and not make noise. I just don't want it to be too tight when cold and break a tooth. I was hoping that someone else has had this issue and has the experience to solve the problem and can say that this idea will safely work.
Thanks,
Neil
RDMC
I checked both runout and gear back lash. The runout was just over .002", within spec for the runout. The lash was also within spec and if I remember was just on the high end of spec. The thought process for the larger gear was that if the cam plate was expanding more than the cast plate would maybe the lash would also increase more. If that happens I would assume (yes I know what happens when we do that) that the gears would than make noise as the pressures on the cams switch from side to side as the valves open and close. If I went with the larger pinion gear the lash might be tight when cold, but, in theory it would be within spec when warm and not make noise. I just don't want it to be too tight when cold and break a tooth. I was hoping that someone else has had this issue and has the experience to solve the problem and can say that this idea will safely work.
Thanks,
Neil
RDMC
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 1
From: Lenexa, KS (KC)
Mine just has a very slight whine at idle, and nothing at speed. I have to listen for it at idle, it's that slight. My runout was .002 and lash was almost non-existent, but positive. I contacted Andrews and they said as long as it's positive, it's good, regardless how little it might be. In my case it must be perfect. You may be onto something if your lash was on the high end, but again I'm not sure that would contribute to the ticking noise. I did use the stock cam plate and oil pump. Hope you get it worked out.
Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 723
Likes: 62
From: Cape Cod, Ma.
dgriffith,
I did check the lash, It came in within spec if not on the high end of the spec. I checked the endplay and even machined the rocker arms in order to shim them to an end play between .003" - .004". I did not check the bushing on the rocker arms but I did swap out the rocker arms before I machined them and the arms I put in made the same noise and had the same end play (the supports must contibute to the end play). If my bike was not a touring bike and just a bar hopper I might just ride it like I stole it. But, I want to be able to listen to the radio. I feel that if the bike didn't make this noise before I made these changes it shouldn't now. I can except some noise but the noise this thing makes is just not acceptable.
Neil
RDMC
I did check the lash, It came in within spec if not on the high end of the spec. I checked the endplay and even machined the rocker arms in order to shim them to an end play between .003" - .004". I did not check the bushing on the rocker arms but I did swap out the rocker arms before I machined them and the arms I put in made the same noise and had the same end play (the supports must contibute to the end play). If my bike was not a touring bike and just a bar hopper I might just ride it like I stole it. But, I want to be able to listen to the radio. I feel that if the bike didn't make this noise before I made these changes it shouldn't now. I can except some noise but the noise this thing makes is just not acceptable.
Neil
RDMC
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 1
From: Lenexa, KS (KC)
Man, if it's loud enough to keep you from hearing the radio, I have to agree that something's not right. The only time I had that much noise was when one of my adjustable pushrods came loose (they don't run well on one cylinder, and I don't mean heat management). I'd probably contact Andrews and see if they have any experience with what could be making it so noisy. Let us know what you find.
Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 723
Likes: 62
From: Cape Cod, Ma.
I got a call into the tech department. I would rather replace the gear for about $100 and keep the power of the cam upgrade than spend about $200 and go back to the stock cams and chain drive.
I can hear the radio but I have to tunr it up louder than I did before. I will keep you updated. Thanks!
Neil
RDMC
I can hear the radio but I have to tunr it up louder than I did before. I will keep you updated. Thanks!
Neil
RDMC
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
From: The Peach State!
I have a '06 ultra with 26G's and does the same thing. Worried the heck out of me and after 1500 or so miles I don't hear it any more. Runs like a scalded dog! Ride it,enjoy the power and soon you won't notice it.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 1
From: Lenexa, KS (KC)
I know you've already mentioned it, but reckon it could be one of your lifters? My lifters were noisy for an hour or so after I first started up, despite being soaked for a couple of days. Quieted down after that.
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 27
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From:
I have S&S gear driven cams in a 95 inch 02 roadking . the dealer did the install . mine are noisy and get louder when it is hot . a harley engine builder told me that they sell diffrent size gears to acomadate the backlash of the gears . if thay are too tight they will whine if thay are loose thay will rattle he said better loose than tight . mine are on the loose side . still trying to get used to the noise but bike runs great.
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Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 723
Likes: 62
From: Cape Cod, Ma.
Well, I pulled the cam cover the other day to take some more measurments before I decided whether I keep gear drive or go back to stock. After working my *** off trying to get the dial indicator mounted as close to 90 degrees to the gear as possible I cam up with the following: least amount of lash came in at just over .001" with the highest just under .003". I took measurments all over the rotation of the cam not just at 90 degree incriments. I ordered an oversized pinion gear yesturday and it should be in on Monday. With any luck this should be the source of the noise. If the lash is that high when cold I can only imagine what it gets to when warm. Wish me luck!
Neil
RDMC
Neil
RDMC
Road Master
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 897
Likes: 10
From: Oregon
From everything I have read .003 is too much lash. The goal is to have them as tight as possible without binding. I will be installing mine next week so I'm watching this thread curious of your results. They do make those oversize gears for a reason, rarely hear of anyone needing one but it does happen.
EDIT: Also, what is your gear lash on the inner gears?
EDIT: Also, what is your gear lash on the inner gears?
Last edited by OG1; May 30, 2009 at 04:10 PM.