So what are you using?

 

Bullseye. Thank you. I believe both can achieve an excellent tune, but I also think the PCV or PCV-AT can do it at a lower cost, and in the case of the AT any upgrades are mostly a matter of just riding the bike to achieve an excellent tune.

 

With the PCV/AT the timing can be adjusted in any of the rpm, TPS positions by going there and adding or subtracting degrees of advance. There are 250 boxes or areas the timing can be adjusted, for each cylinder.

 

I tune both TTS/SERT and Power Commanders, we also install and tune stand alone units on Turbo charged Big Blocks, and LSx motors in off-road cars. I Choose TTS for several Reasons, First of all Power Commanders are a 'piggy back' computer, they basically intercept the signals sent by the stock ECU and then make decisions to add or subtract injection pulse and ignition timing, and send those signals on to the injectors and coils, you never know exactly how much timing you are running into the motor because you are only adding or subtracting degrees of timing from whatever the stock computer has output, you just keep adding or subtracting degrees of timing in areas until you make the most power. For this reason Piggy Back systems, while they may work ok, are never as good as just using a real ECU with no intercepts. The Power commander III system (I don't know about the PC-V, i haven't used one but i believe its the same) is based soley on Throttle Position and RPM, While the TTS/SERT works off manifold pressure vs. RPM, manifold pressure is a more accurate method of determining air flow through the motor, this is basic EFI 101 knowledge. This is why all of the highest end ECU's (Autronic, EFI Technologies, Motec, Etc.) all recommend and use Manifold pressure/vacuum to determine fuel delivery, throttle position is only used for acceleration enrichments.

As for the 'auto tune' deal, that may be ok if you just want your bike to run and that is acceptable for you, but if you want to make the motor happy, and get the most life and power out of it, the only way to tune any system is on a Dyno, you have no way of determining power gains or losses without a device to measure it. If you don't know what Air Fuel Ratio makes the most power at a given area on the map the auto tune does you no good, the only way to tell is on a Dyno. A properly Dyno tuned bike will blow that auto tune system out of the water every single time. The motor will work easier, and make more power on less throttle, with a proper dyno tune. Also like stated before the Auto-Tune does nothing for timing, and timing is more critical to power than air/fuel. Ok but let me play devils advocate for a second and assume that dynojet sends you a perfect map file for a bike set up identically to yours, the system must be comparable or even superior then since there is no need for a dyno run..... WRONG. we have put identical bikes with identical bolt ons on the dyno, and they both took tuning differently, Each motor has it's own personality, and even if you have a great engine builder blueprint two identical motors with identical parts they will both have their own little niches, and to get a perfect tune both will have to be done seperately.

The only advantage that the PC's have over TTS/SERT is that you can flash them on the fly, you don't have to shut the bike off to upload the map to the computer.

I haven't used the the PC5 but the PCIII didn't have a very good ability to trim cylinders front and rear seperately, it makes it very hard to get both cylinders to run in unison. TTS has seperate fuel tables for front and rear cylinders, as well as seperate timing tables for front and rear cylinders.

 

Sorry. That was a typo. I AM using a TTS MasterTune. My bike was built and tuned by Skips Speed & Custom Cycles.

 

When the Dynojet LCD-200 unit is released it will unlock nearly unlimited possibilities for datalogging with the PC-V. Along with configurable guages on the LCD screen this will show data in real time and will give users the ability to log all of the PC-V and J1850 channels including F&R ignition timing, F&R knock retard, engine temp, MAP, TPS, IAC, vehicle speed, Etc... along with all of the PC-V data. If you have the Auto Tune it will also log AFR as well, and you can even configure an analog input for whatever else you would like to log or view. Logging time is determined by the size of your SD card and you will have up to several hours available. You have the options of viewing in real time, playing back the data, or importing it to an MS excel spreadsheet which offers endless option for comparing data. You can also store and change maps with the unit, there is even a drag strip simulator and several other cool features. We actually use one of these LCD-200 units on Keith's 8 second race car with the Dynojet Wideband2 and it works beyond awesome.

 

I am not sure where to start here, but if you are tuning on a Dynojet dyno regardless of which EFI module you are using you can use the Dynojet DLM module which will inegrate all of the Delphi ECM data into the dyno Winpep program and everything is right there, including ignition timing. As far as the TTS/Sert comment that they use RPM X MAP this is incorrect, take a look at the VE tables in the TTS/Sert calibration and they are Alpha-N just like the Power Commander, the only table that is MAP based is the AFR table. The PC III or PC-V can also accurately tune cylinders individually and has seperate tables for them. I am not saying the TTS or Sert are not good product because they are, but there is a lot of misconceptions on how each product works.

 

I love when facts slam dunk knuckleheads.

I agree with Iclick..I think both units are good but too many TTS groupies are in here trying to act like they know something. If you don't know why one is better than the other, then just be quiet.

That's how so much incorrect information floats around these boards, people post what they read somebody else post and pretty soon it becomes fact, even when it's not.

Jamie...we appreciate what you bring to the board...rare to find an honest vendor that will tell it straight.

 

I'm definitely not a "TTS groupie". I'm just speaking from my experience with the the PCIII and the TTS MasterTune. My bike ran perfectly fine with the PCIII. I just didn't realize how much gas mileage I was givin' up with the map that was loaded on it. I'm gettin' better gas mileage with the TTS MasterTune (and of course a good tune) than I did with PCIII, Thundermax w/AutuTune, and stock. And this is AFTER motorwork.

I'm not sayin' the TTS MasterTune is better than the PCV, because I don't have any experience with the PCV. But in MY opinion because of MY experience, the TTS MasterTune is the way to go.

 

Like i said I have only used the PC III, Front to rear bias for fuel on the units i have used only has a trim option of +2, +1, 0, -1, -2. These options are too coarse in most cases and either send one cylinder too fat or too lean, with no happy medium, And i was almost certain it was just Throttle Position Vs RPM on those units, with just 2 tables, one for fuel, one for timing, and the trim option.

As for the VE tables in TTS being Alpha-n, the VE tables represent a % of what the AFR table (MAP vs. RPM) calls for, internal algorithms within the ECU combine these numbers to determine injection pulse width.

We run a Dyno Dynamics Digital eddy current dyno, it has all the OBD hook ups, and yes you can see timing etc with the diagnostics. I agree that both units have their upsides and down sides, but i come from the school of thought that if the ECU itself is capable of functioning excellently with a good tune there is no need to use a piggy back system on top of it. And that Delphi unit is more than configurable enough for the 2 cylinder engine.

As for the new LCD from Dynojet, that sounds like a great product, and there is no substitute for good Data Logging, that's the only way you can get on the road real life data, not just what the dyno can simulate, the only way you are gonna do that with a TTS/SERT is to stick a laptop in your saddle bag, which is pretty impracticle ....