Throttle progressivity - who has played with this??
Banned
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,551
Likes: 6
Did you actually read my OP?
I did the same as you and it ran like crap, bogging down when trying to launch.
I suspect jimsreddyna is on the right track with the velocity being the reason it better to open it less at low revs.
But I still cant explain why a cabled bike doesnt bog down....
I did the same as you and it ran like crap, bogging down when trying to launch.
I suspect jimsreddyna is on the right track with the velocity being the reason it better to open it less at low revs.
But I still cant explain why a cabled bike doesnt bog down....
I'm not sure what he determined/discovered, but maybe he will chime in with an answer, or maybe you could PM him.
What you gotta remember about all TBW applications, even in cars and trucks, is that the ECU is in control, not you. When you twist the grip, the ECU sees you "requested" acceleration, then it checks all it's sensor inputs and opens the throttle only as fast and as far as it decides to based on the EPA driven map programed into it......It's all about emissions, my friend.
The aftermarket is making WOT override switches for certain cagers. When installed, they allow the TBW engines to fully respond when ordered to.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,579
Likes: 144
From: SC
I have an 09 RKC with the 103 SE Pro Stg II BB kit. I have the throttle progressitivity maxed as you did. No problems here, but you have a wilder engine combo for sure. The master tech mechanic at the dealership told me to do this, so i did... Again, no problems here.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,663
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From: Northeast Ohio
You cannot just max the progressivity without making other changes in the various tables to ensure that you get the fuel needed when the throttle is now open wider. You do not need bigger injectors, throttle body etc. It is all in the total tune. Anytime you change one thing, something else needds to be changed to either cope or offset what you did. You can make em run just fine.
Banned
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,551
Likes: 6
You cannot just max the progressivity without making other changes in the various tables to ensure that you get the fuel needed when the throttle is now open wider. You do not need bigger injectors, throttle body etc. It is all in the total tune. Anytime you change one thing, something else needds to be changed to either cope or offset what you did. You can make em run just fine.
There is no need for larger throttle body or injectors unless you go big bore and higher revs. Like the guy said, you can't just override the butterfly reaction without also doing same with injectors......The OP was playing with just one parameter.
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,639
Likes: 2
From: Australia
You cannot just max the progressivity without making other changes in the various tables to ensure that you get the fuel needed when the throttle is now open wider. You do not need bigger injectors, throttle body etc. It is all in the total tune. Anytime you change one thing, something else needds to be changed to either cope or offset what you did. You can make em run just fine.
Last edited by kingkingking; Dec 20, 2009 at 10:15 PM.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,459
Likes: 674
From: Vancouver Island B.C.
How were they sychronized? Has your bike been dyno'd? The first thing to do when tuning a bike is sychronize these tables. You can't just change your cubic inches to 124 and be good to go. Then you can move on to the timing and other tables to tune. Adjusting any table (with exception of the clb tables if you are using "vtune" or "smart tune") before your ve tables are synched is a waste of time. As I mentioned earlier I was taught not to set throttle blade control table to max values in all the cells but to do it in a stepped pattern. Then after this was done and the bike was sill having issues with launching I would look at the accell enrichment table to remove or add fuel. Then if I removed fuel I would again check for knock retard as the accell table can also affect this. Like Dalton said " one thing affects another and it's all in the tune" .
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,639
Likes: 2
From: Australia
How were they sychronized? Has your bike been dyno'd? The first thing to do when tuning a bike is sychronize these tables. You can't just change your cubic inches to 124 and be good to go. Then you can move on to the timing and other tables to tune. Adjusting any table (with exception of the clb tables if you are using "vtune" or "smart tune") before your ve tables are synched is a waste of time. As I mentioned earlier I was taught not to set throttle blade control table to max values in all the cells but to do it in a stepped pattern. Then after this was done and the bike was sill having issues with launching I would look at the accell enrichment table to remove or add fuel. Then if I removed fuel I would again check for knock retard as the accell table can also affect this. Like Dalton said " one thing affects another and it's all in the tune" .
The bike has been dynoed, I have not manually altered the VE tables but I have done some smart tuning at different throttle positions and it has worked wonders. Smart tune has never changed the values below 1500 tho..
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,459
Likes: 674
From: Vancouver Island B.C.
It just means that they have been calibrated to how your engine pumps air. That is what you are doing when you smart tune. Not to question the ability of your dyno guy but, if you've done some smart tuning and it's worked wonders then IMHO it wasn't tuned properly.
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Joined: Oct 2005
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I give you guys a lot of credit. I can't imagine having to go through all of that to run some cams or build the motor a little. I would have zero clue on what to do with all those tables and a bunch of wires coming from my throttle. Hope you get it figured out.
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
Did you actually read my OP?
I did the same as you and it ran like crap, bogging down when trying to launch.
I suspect jimsreddyna is on the right track with the velocity being the reason it better to open it less at low revs.
But I still cant explain why a cabled bike doesnt bog down....
I did the same as you and it ran like crap, bogging down when trying to launch.
I suspect jimsreddyna is on the right track with the velocity being the reason it better to open it less at low revs.
But I still cant explain why a cabled bike doesnt bog down....
It would seem unlikely that changing the throttle progressivity tables alone would result in the engine bogging you are describing, although it is certainly possible. Are you suggesting you made no other tuning changes in any other tables other than the throttle progressivity tables?
If the throttle progressivity tables alone resulted in the engine bogging, you might consider reducing the fuel delivery in the same same rpm range where the throttle progressivity was increased by modifying the VE tables to reduce fuel delivery (front and rear) in those same ranges.
Another alternative is to now run smarttune (assuming you are running the 2010 SEST) which will make the adjustments for you as you make data runs and store the data for use with SmartTune.
Other than these approaches to eliminate the engine bog, you'll need to go back to the factory throttle settings (you can get them from one of the other maps that came with the tuner software) and have an experienced tuner make the changes for you.