Spoke to a HD Service rep yesterday who sells both the PCV and the Super Tuner and he said that they have had better success with the SEST on bikes 08 or newer because of the fly-by-wire throttle. Any truth to this and perhaps someone can explain to me why and if its worth the extra $100 for the SEST. I currently have a Stage II with a 103 BB; 255 cams; SE filter and Rinehart pipes and the bike has run like **** since the Stage II download was loaded on. Any comments would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/6028071-post23.html

 

It all comes down to the tuning platform your dealer has the most experience and feels comfortable tuning with. Both the SEST and PC-V are great products and are as good as the accruacy behind the tuning. The main difference in dyno tuning between these products is you cannot tune the SEST live so there is more time involved with dyno tuning because you cannot make real time changes as with the PC-V. Along with the price difference in dyno tuning if you plan on self tuning the SEST does not come with a cable kit or software which must be purchased seperately. If you are going to use the SEST for self tuning I also recommend using the new Smart Tune software which will help populate the VE tables.

 

Here is my response in the thread listed above:

When a thread title states "Power Commander V vs. HD Racing Tuner" it triggers my response mechanism to proceed with caution. As many of you know I have extensive experience tuning with both of these products as I work with them on the dyno every day. Both are excellent products and are more than capable or providing a great tune. Saying either of these products does less than the other is better stated that they each do things differently. For example the PC-V has 240 tuning ponts per cylinder for fuel, igntion timing and AFR. With PC-V you can build maps individually for all 6 gears and by doing so this would give you 2880 individual tuning points (5760 tuning points if you use the Auto Tune module) You also have the ability to use a map switch to change between multiple maps, add dual Wideband O2 sensors with the Auto Tune module for real time tuning to the AFR you specify, the PC-V also has a configurable input channel which is useful if you have a boosted motor and want to add a 2 bar map sensor and configure it. These are all features that are not available with other EFI tuning platforms.

I will first address the earlier comment that the PC-V should not be used on DBW models for various reasons. This is absolutely incorrect. This is a great tuning product with extensive product support and provides excellent results. We have tuned several hundred DBW bikes on our dyno, all of which left our shop perfectly tuned with a 100% satisfaction guarantee. We also own 2009 and 2010 bikes that have extensive Dynojet PC-V tuning time on them. We use our bikes to develop our fuel maps and I ride them as much as possible. As far as the PC-V and maps we have out there, well that is many, many satisfied customers. Our reputation with this product speaks for itself and I will stake Fuel Moto's reputation on the accuracy of the PC-V.

To directly address earlier comments in this thread: Although throttle response with the DBW throttle system may seem softer than earlier models it is there for a reason and and much of the actual response or lack of it is due to the EPA mandated lean mixure in the first place. The thottle blade strategy is there for several reasons including to smooth driveline lash, increased mileage, but most importantly to control intake velocity similar to a CV carb which will decrease throttle abruptness. This can be adjusted within the TTS/SEST, however if you datalog the actual TPS vs blade angle you will see it is actually very linear and generally does not need to be adjusted. Interestingly, the throttle prog. tables in TTS and SEST calibrations are actually the same as stock. As far as the comment about being able to drive thru a safety course or cones, every single Police bike from 2008-2010 has this exact strategy and this is their forte. As far as the O2 sensors, simply put they are only useful within the range they can sample, and to have complete control of the fuel mixture it is simply outside the limitations of the OEM narrowband O2 sensors as they only have an operating range of 14.2-15.0 AFR. With the PC-V this is done with O2 eliminators, with TTS/SEST this is done within the software in the AFR table (or lamda table on 2010 models) If you specify an AFR of less than 14.6:1 the sensors will not switch thus will not provide feedback. You do have about a .3 AFR swing you can manipulate with the CLB table. Retaining the sensors while tuning with the TTS V-Tune and SEST Smart tune can be very useful and will allow you to find 14.6 AFR and populate the closed loop area of your VE tables, you will then go back in and change these targets and the ECM will calulate the correct fuel requirements. On the dyno you will then go back thru and check these areas with a wideband. This can speed up tuning and works well, however some drawbacks are that it will only aid in tuning the closed loop area and is not ideal in all applications as you will need set the entire AFR table to 14.6 or its lamda equivelent which is very lean and generally not a target you want to use under any kind of moderate load with many builds. With the Auto Tune module for PC-V it uses OEM style Bosch Wideband O2 sensors and will allow extremely accurate sampling from 11:1 to 16:1 AFR and not only does it measure the AFR, the PC-V will adjust the PW to maintain the demanded AFR in your AFR table. It uses scale and algorythm to make very accurate adjustments as you ride to the AFR defined in your map which has the same 240 individual tuning points per cylinder as the fuel and ignition tables. You can run the Auto Tune live full time for real time changes as you ride, conect to the software and write a new fuel map from the trims that it has logged, or you can run a switch and toggle the AT off/on as desired between your base map or with the auto tune logic. As far as the comment on how the 2010 bike has changed from TPM X RPM to MAP X RPM, this is only a change in how the ECM interprets the TTS/SEST calibrations and just a different way with TTS/SEST the ECM associates VE and MAP in its calculations ending in the same result. This aspect will not affect the PC-V as we are tuning based on the ECM's end result which is injector pulse width.

In closing each of these product are great tuning tools. Do your research and choose a tuning platform that works within your needs and limitations. Most importantly use a tuning device that has the best support or that you have a willingness to learn. As always, we are here to help and if anyone has any questions just let me know.