Dyno necessary Stage 1?
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
Canned maps are just that; a one-size-fits-all solution. If you want to get your money out of your parts, get it tuned. Anyone who's had a Stage 1 dyno tuned will tell you to go for it. The bike will run cooler, smoother, and make more power.
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 597
Likes: 1
From: Texas
I have a 09 SG with The SE high flow air filter, V&H Ovals, and the HD download. I really have no complaints. The bike runs good, noticably cooler than stock configuration, and I get decent gas mpg.
The dealer is offering a SERT and full dyno tune for $700 plus tax so I dropped the bike off this afternoon.
IMO, if you can afford it, you should have it professionally tuned. Face it you won't be satisfied until you do.
hth,
Dave
PS. I'll provide some feedback once I get the bike back tomorrow or Thursday.
The dealer is offering a SERT and full dyno tune for $700 plus tax so I dropped the bike off this afternoon.
IMO, if you can afford it, you should have it professionally tuned. Face it you won't be satisfied until you do.
hth,
Dave
PS. I'll provide some feedback once I get the bike back tomorrow or Thursday.
Last edited by EastSideBikerTrash; Jan 19, 2010 at 06:51 PM. Reason: spelling
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,639
Likes: 2
From: Australia
Cooler, smoother and more power sound like something a fuel company would put on a gas pump to encourage you to buy their fuel. There is nothing in any of those words that mean anything at all.
Anyone who has had their stage 1 dynoed wants / needs to beleive that they didnt waste their money, so psychologically they are biased and can not be relied upon.
Look at the science. Minor changes in AFR and timing result in minor changes in tq, and when the tq produced is minor (eg stage 1) then the overall impact is negligible.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
You got any proof of that?
Cooler, smoother and more power sound like something a fuel company would put on a gas pump to encourage you to buy their fuel. There is nothing in any of those words that mean anything at all.
Anyone who has had their stage 1 dynoed wants / needs to beleive that they didnt waste their money, so psychologically they are biased and can not be relied upon.
Look at the science. Minor changes in AFR and timing result in minor changes in tq, and when the tq produced is minor (eg stage 1) then the overall impact is negligible.
Cooler, smoother and more power sound like something a fuel company would put on a gas pump to encourage you to buy their fuel. There is nothing in any of those words that mean anything at all.
Anyone who has had their stage 1 dynoed wants / needs to beleive that they didnt waste their money, so psychologically they are biased and can not be relied upon.
Look at the science. Minor changes in AFR and timing result in minor changes in tq, and when the tq produced is minor (eg stage 1) then the overall impact is negligible.
That's the difference between the dealer download and the dyno tune. What the chart doesn't show is how much better and cooler the bike ran. The difference at 3500rpm was substantial, as you can see.
Edited to add- And before anyone starts whining about the different components, the fact of the matter is that the bike made far more power after the tune, and ran far, far smoother and cooler. Tell me I'm psychologically biased, and I'll tell you you don't have a clue how well your bike could run if you'd crack open your wallet for a tune.
Last edited by '05Train; Jan 19, 2010 at 08:23 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,639
Likes: 2
From: Australia
Yes, as a matter of fact, I do.
Edited to add- And before anyone starts whining about the different components, the fact of the matter is that the bike made far more power after the tune, and ran far, far smoother and cooler. Tell me I'm psychologically biased, and I'll tell you you don't have a clue how well your bike could run if you'd crack open your wallet for a tune.
Edited to add- And before anyone starts whining about the different components, the fact of the matter is that the bike made far more power after the tune, and ran far, far smoother and cooler. Tell me I'm psychologically biased, and I'll tell you you don't have a clue how well your bike could run if you'd crack open your wallet for a tune.
You changed components. This proves nothing. The fact that the AFR charts are missing further raises suspicions.
BTW my bike has been dynoed by 1 guy and it made a huge difference. But my bike is like Stage 8 or whatever in Stealin Eagle wankspeak. My canned map was for a bike running a S&S teardrop air cleaner and staggered shorties. I always knew a dyno would be necessary for my engine running the HB and power duals.
My point is that if you have a canned map for a stage 1 96 with a heavy breather and monster ovals (for example) and your bike has a HB and MOs then you aint gonna change the earth by dynoing and you would be better off saving the dyno money and putting it towards cams, beer or *****. Fact.
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 605
Likes: 1
From: Minnesota
Are you stuck on the Power Comander? While I haven't used it, the forum has a lot of good testimonials about the PCV with AutoTune and Fuel Moto. As I understand it, you get a very good map from Fuel Moto and the AutoTune dials it in. For a Stage I, this might be the best approach. It's a little more money, but probably less than you'd pay for the Power Comander and tune. Then, when you are ready to go cams or big bore, you can get the dyno tune.
Just an option.
Just an option.
Thread Starter
|
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix
No, I'm not stuck on the Pwr Commander per se; I know I'll need a unit of some kind, and the dealer carries the PC - don't know if they carry others, or if it would be cheaper to go another route.
I could get behind saving money for beer & *****
I could get behind saving money for beer & *****
For me it will be a matter of economics. I just picked up a SEST and yet to have it mated up. My bike is an 09 FLHT (SE intake/V&H slip-ons/stage 1 download) with 3200 miles on it and warranty until 08/11. If it looks like no cam work $$ is available on the horizon and I want to keep my mfr intact, I'm gonna ride 120 miles north and have Jamie tune it. I'll keep it this way until warranty is up. If cam $$ looks possible, I'll have my dealer load in a canned map for a few $$ and save my $$ for a tune with the motor work ...
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Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
You knew I would whine anyhow right?
You changed components. This proves nothing. The fact that the AFR charts are missing further raises suspicions.
BTW my bike has been dynoed by 1 guy and it made a huge difference. But my bike is like Stage 8 or whatever in Stealin Eagle wankspeak. My canned map was for a bike running a S&S teardrop air cleaner and staggered shorties. I always knew a dyno would be necessary for my engine running the HB and power duals.
My point is that if you have a canned map for a stage 1 96 with a heavy breather and monster ovals (for example) and your bike has a HB and MOs then you aint gonna change the earth by dynoing and you would be better off saving the dyno money and putting it towards cams, beer or *****. Fact.
You changed components. This proves nothing. The fact that the AFR charts are missing further raises suspicions.
BTW my bike has been dynoed by 1 guy and it made a huge difference. But my bike is like Stage 8 or whatever in Stealin Eagle wankspeak. My canned map was for a bike running a S&S teardrop air cleaner and staggered shorties. I always knew a dyno would be necessary for my engine running the HB and power duals.
My point is that if you have a canned map for a stage 1 96 with a heavy breather and monster ovals (for example) and your bike has a HB and MOs then you aint gonna change the earth by dynoing and you would be better off saving the dyno money and putting it towards cams, beer or *****. Fact.
Anyone who's had a bike dynoed by a competent tuner can testify that the tune makes the bike run cooler and smoother. Oftentimes there's a substantial power gain below the peaks. If all you care about are peak numbers, then a tune (at Stage 1) isn't going to make a huge difference. If you care about how your bike runs, and about getting everything out of the components you've paid for, then a tune is worth every penny.
