Capt. Mike thanks for your questioning attitude, but I have done quite a bit of research on oil. I can tell you that HD does NOT make any oil, they buy it from the cheapest bidder. I know Amsoil, Mobile 1, redline and some others are a great oil for an engine and transmission. The primary is another story because of the clutch and friction modifiers, but the above mentioned companies do make oils for this. I am not a fan of using the same oil in all three places because this creates a compromise for all three applications. Use a product made specifically for each application. Syn 3 is a compromise everywhere. Syn 3 is probably good enough to run for 100,000's of miles, but I will stick with the companies that do this for a living. Hell HD cannot even make a bike that you don't have to spend thousands on after you buy it to get it right.

I can also tell you straight weight guys that the use of more non-synthetic oil is used in straight weight. Most people don't know that the govt allows highly refined dino oil to be classified as synthetic. In order to get the multi viscosity oils and especially the 0wt- x wt it takes the addition of more esters and PAOs which are true synthetics. I can tell you that Amsoil and Redline use more true synthetic that Mobile 1 which started using dino oil to a certain extent to increase profit. Mobile 1 is still a heck of a good oil because most of you are worrying about nothing. Any of todays oil will provide adequate protection. And if you change it every 3000 or less, you probably could eliminate the oil filter all together. About all the oil filter does today is maybe protect some parts from big chunks after a major failure. Oh and another thing, the darkness of oil especially after use has NOTHING to do with its ability to lubricate. This color change is mostly based on the additive package.

If you can't tell already I am an engineer so I do understand the chemical and physical properties of this stuff. Actually I am an engineering professor, of course my major field is nuclear.

 

Spur56, I think you're right on all counts, but I'm not sure Syn3 should be characterized as a mediocre or compromised product. I don't use it since I consider it overpriced and not especially noteworthy, but know a number of people who use it, some who've accumulated high mileages with no engine problems. As you said, almost any oil within or near viscosity specs will lubricate sufficiently to take the bike a 100k miles or more reliably, and the majority of name-brand synthetics are all good choices, even the non-MC-specific ("car oil") varieties that fall within reasonable viscosity requirements (e.g., 15w50 or 20w60). I think the best criteria for selecting an engine oil is to pick from the usual suspects (Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, Amsoil, etc.) based on price and availability. For most that will be Mobil 1 15w50, which is likely the best value of them all. I don't use it either, but recommend it frequently.

OTOH, I wouldn't consider eliminating the oil-filter, even if I could do it easily. Some practices are just too traditional and etched into our psyche to abandon. I wouldn't want to crank the bike without one, as it would be too mentally stressful.

 

I feel your pain Iclick. But since startup causes much of the wear on an engine and the oil filter is the largest restriction. Starting with a filter does even more damage. We all need to do what makes us feel good, but I cantell you a syn is Typically always better than a nonsyn.

I am sure syn3 is ok, I like the concept that redline uses. A seperate formula for each application. This should produce the best additive package for each leading to the best performance.

Hey Iclick, just close your eyes when you start it. LOL

 

I'm also not a subscriber of the one-oil-for-every-hole philosophy, and I think HD makes these recommendations in the interest of simplicity. Mightn't this eliminate the risk of inattentive (brain-dead) techs putting gear oil in the engine, etc.? Each hole has its own needs, and not one oil is perfect for all three, IMO. I like a high-tech synthetic in the engine, gear oil in the tranny (syn or otherwise), and a profoundly mundane fossil engine oil (or ATF) in the primary.

If I nixed the oil filter I would have to do more than close my eyes, I would have to be threatened at gunpoint. Some rituals become part of one's psyche. I was a nervous wreck for months after buying my first vehicle that didn't have points!

 

I've been told that at least in the new passenger vehicles that require the lighter weight oil such as 5w-30 ect the oil passages to the crank bearings ect are smaller as stated earlier the tighter tollerances are the reasons the lighter oils are needed and since most engine wear occurs upon startup, if you've got thick cold oil trying to go through those small oil passages, your engine startup wear is going to increase significantly. I believe that another advantage to syn is how thin or viscous it is even when cold. For example if you take a quart of 10w-40 dino and a quart of 10w-40 syn oil and pour them out, the syn oil pours empty from it's container considerably faster. That tells me it circulates much quicker during a cold start up. There's nothing scientific about that. It's just common sense IMO.

 

Hey Honest Bob,I too bought my first Harley in 1962.Like you had a very hard time converting over to multigrade 20/50.Lifter and pinion bearing issues are common problems.at least on certain bikes,pinion is because of pressed flywheels,lifters,not sure.My R&R motor has 60wt,S&S motor 20/50.Neither motor giving me any problems.You just might run straight grade oil and see if your problems stop,then you will know for sure.Good Luck

 

Gotta say, of all the oil threads I've witnessed in HDF to date, this one makes me feel my education has been given a decent boost!

 

I'm sorry but I think there are some flaws in Spurs56's logic. First in my owners manual for my '03 it states to use an oil based upon the temperature the bike will be run at. 10/40 for temps under 40f, 20/5-0 up to 100f, or you can use straight 50 wt for temps 60 to 80 degrees f. And for temps over 80 f straight 60 wt. This is the recommendation of the manufacturer not my opinion. And they spec a oil filter that has a 5 micron rating. It does not say anywhere that it would be ok not to use one. I believe that's due to the piston oiler jets, that spray oil to the undersides of the piston. Parts from cam shoes that are known to wear out can travel thru the motor an plug small passageways. Again this is Harley's recommendation not mine. As far a using one oil for all applications,it does make sense. The part that needs the most cleaning is the motor. The trans doesn't need the detergent additives, but they are there and don't hurt anything. The primary is the least critical and again has no particles of combustion but has detergents which don't hurt anything. So using one oil instead of 3 does make it easy. And last if you choose to use an oil other then Harley's, I haven't seen where that would hurt anything. But changing your oil every 3k miles is an old wives tale that won't die. The people that make Harley's say in the manual to go 5k between changes even with their oil. for everyone that says their bike only lasted as long as it has is due to 2500-3000 oil changes, I' ll show you the same amount of bikes that have gone 5k or longer between changes. If you have a uoa done every now and then you'll see for sure how much life is really left in your oil, and stop dumping perfectly good oil that has to be recycled before its time.,,

 

Valvoline v-twin 20/50 crank & primary =valvoline syn power 75/140 gear oil in trans runnin smoooth will change fluides out at 2500 mile entervals .useing harleys oil filter .my 06 road king doesn't mind iT . I SAW ON A AMSOIL SITE HARLEY OIL IS SONOCO OIL . JUST MY 2 CNTS WORTH.

 

Big Cahuna,

Let me say that I use redline and I change every 5000 and I do use a filter. I have studied both oil chemistry and physics. I understand small passages and the term micron. I could even give you the micron, bypass valve setpoint, flowrate, construction material on the major filters and mnaufacturers. I understand who actually makes filters and who like HD buys their filters. Having said all that, there are a lot of BS out there about oil and filters. Many of your statements are not incorrect, but you have probably misinterpreted what I meant.

I am not going to argue with anyone on this subject because that is like arguing with a pig. The pig will not understand and both you and the pig will leave pissed off.

I will not even get into the interpertation of data on test and the many different minipulations of this data by oil and filter manufacturers out there. Each of them will minipulate the test and data to their advantage. I also am aware of UOA's, TBN and the like.

Most of the info out there is legend and folklore like oil being too slick for roller bearings. I am happy with what I do and make NO recommendations for anyone else. With the quality of major oils today it is not worth the effort to argue over. I like miller beer and some like buttwiser, they both will make you drunk and fat and cause your bladder to expand. Drink what you like. Peace Out.