Too Much OIL
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,616
Likes: 4,440
From: anacoco, la
Yup. Sound like your bike is exactly like my bike there oldbiker. 32oz in the primary will bring it up to the bottom of the diaphragm spring with the bike leaned over on the kickstand. Another 20oz +/- is needed to bring it up to the spring with the bike vertical. The manual doesn't say the bike should be vertical, but I do believe the bike needs to be vertical.
I wonder how many bikes like this are out there with their owners blissfully unaware? Or, is it just an error in the manual? All it takes to see this is to just pull the derby cover off & look inside as you fill the primary.
As Yogi Berra once said, "you can observe a lot just by looking around."
JR
I wonder how many bikes like this are out there with their owners blissfully unaware? Or, is it just an error in the manual? All it takes to see this is to just pull the derby cover off & look inside as you fill the primary.
As Yogi Berra once said, "you can observe a lot just by looking around."
JR
Thread Starter
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Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Buckeye State
I would keep a close eye on engine oil and trans levels. You should be able to see oil levels drop. If you had an extra quart of oil in your primary you may have been a quart low on engine oil or added or quart previously and you may have been out of trans oil.
I did see your oil stain photo but I couldn't get it to resize to get a good look.
I did see your oil stain photo but I couldn't get it to resize to get a good look.
Last edited by rookie racer; May 2, 2010 at 02:42 PM. Reason: pic
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,873
Likes: 13
From: NW Arkansas
its gonna retain enough of the color to show when mixed with the engine oil.
to some of the other posters: from 07 on, the recommended amount of oil, by the book, in the primary is 38 oz. if you are just putting in 1 qt, then you are running low. so the first time you change the primary, you have to buy 2 qts, use 6 oz out of it, then save the rest of the bottle for your next 4 changes. then start over again.....
to some of the other posters: from 07 on, the recommended amount of oil, by the book, in the primary is 38 oz. if you are just putting in 1 qt, then you are running low. so the first time you change the primary, you have to buy 2 qts, use 6 oz out of it, then save the rest of the bottle for your next 4 changes. then start over again.....
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,663
Likes: 7
From: Northeast Ohio
38oz of primary oil is enough in the 07 and up models. The chain and bottom of the clutch basket slings oil all over in the primary so there is no lubrication problem. If HD has had it wrong all these years, why are there not primary chain, and clutch failures that are occuring at an alarming rate? Just cause someone thinks they found something, doesn't neccessarily mean it is right. 
HD owuld have ammened all of their manuals if that was the case.
The more oil, the more drag and power loss that will occur in the primary.
Oh, and I don't believe in Bigfoot either..
HD owuld have ammened all of their manuals if that was the case.The more oil, the more drag and power loss that will occur in the primary.
Oh, and I don't believe in Bigfoot either..
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
From: L.A. (Lower Alabama)
Thats true Dalton, if HD knew anything was wrong with their products, like a camshaft problem for instance, they would surely accept full responsibility and help out all buyers. The fact remains that I accurately measured 52 oz of oil to bring the level up to the bottom of the spring as per shop manual diagram. So either it has to be measured on the stand, which I dont believe to be true, or there is a problem with the book. You couldnt even see oil in there at 32 oz. Maybe theres a middle ground, cause I agree that too much oil is a horsepower thief, causes leaks, poor shifting, etc. But I'm gonna find out. Aviation manuals have alot of changes, there may be a service bulletin or something that amends the level.
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 383
Likes: 1
From: Boston & thereabouts
correct
oldbiker and I both accurately measured 50-52oz to fill the primary to the spring as shown in the manual with the bike vertical.
oldbiker is right. The manual is proven defective. Either:
1) The primary is to be filled with the bike on the sidestand, and the manual neglects to state this.
or
2) The primary is filled with the bike vertical, taking 50oz while the manual states 32oz.
A third possibility is there were production changes resulting in varying capacities between bikes. But again, the manual doesn't mention this either.
Something's wrong, and it's not oldbiker.
JR
oldbiker is right. The manual is proven defective. Either:
1) The primary is to be filled with the bike on the sidestand, and the manual neglects to state this.
or
2) The primary is filled with the bike vertical, taking 50oz while the manual states 32oz.
A third possibility is there were production changes resulting in varying capacities between bikes. But again, the manual doesn't mention this either.
Something's wrong, and it's not oldbiker.
JR
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,675
Likes: 95
From: Billings,Mt.
The owners manual for my '06 sez to use 1 qt.(32oz.) or fill to the bottom of the spring which takes about 4-6 oz. more for my bike.There is no amount given for filling to the spring.
I do it with the bike level.
I'm sure you guys know how to measure,so I wont go there.
I figure a little more oil is not gunna hurt.
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
From: L.A. (Lower Alabama)
The techs I have spoken to today say the touring models will take more than 32, but no more than about 40. We discussed the diagram, and they allowed as how that was misleading as it shows the pre-load washer for the diaphragm spring rather than the bottom of the clutch pack. Therin lies my problem, as I filled it to look like the picture, because it is almost impossible to see the bottom of the clutch pack on my bike through the 1/4 inch gap at the bottom of the derby cover. So there are several levels of correctness here. With 50 oz I can no longer find neutral while stationary (always problamatic on mine anyway) so there is too much oil, causing clutch plate drag. 32 is not visible in the hole, even while shaking the bike side to side. So when I get the time I am going to pull the outer primary and make myself a little dipstick (no comments) to get the level correct. Once I have that number, I wont need it anymore, Ill just put in what I know is the correct amount for my bike like I do with the xmsn and engine oil.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,140
Likes: 17
From: Wisconsin
oldbiker and I both accurately measured 50-52oz to fill the primary to the spring as shown in the manual with the bike vertical.
oldbiker is right. The manual is proven defective. Either:
1) The primary is to be filled with the bike on the sidestand, and the manual neglects to state this.
or
2) The primary is filled with the bike vertical, taking 50oz while the manual states 32oz.
A third possibility is there were production changes resulting in varying capacities between bikes. But again, the manual doesn't mention this either.
Something's wrong, and it's not oldbiker.
JR
oldbiker is right. The manual is proven defective. Either:
1) The primary is to be filled with the bike on the sidestand, and the manual neglects to state this.
or
2) The primary is filled with the bike vertical, taking 50oz while the manual states 32oz.
A third possibility is there were production changes resulting in varying capacities between bikes. But again, the manual doesn't mention this either.
Something's wrong, and it's not oldbiker.
JR
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,663
Likes: 7
From: Northeast Ohio
As the manual says, too much oil results in a clutch problem, because the HD clutch is not made to run in a continuous bath. Stating you have proven the manual defective is good for some laughs, my recommendation as a guy who's been around a few blocks, drain it, dump in 38 oz. as it recommends and quit trying to reinvent the manual, it's been the same forever and there has not been a big rash of failures at any point. The other option, of course, is to totally disregard the advice of the old timers and the manual and do what you feel like doing, after all, it's your bike and your money. My
As I stated earleir in the thread, and got thoroughly flamed for saying, the manual has it right, if it didn't there would be warranty issues out the wazoo for poor operating clutches. I was just sitting back and waiting to see where this thread would go.