Race Tuner and Smart Tune?
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Road Master
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 793
Likes: 114
Race Tuner and Smart Tune?
Ok Dyno guys, (hdtuner) can you explain exactly what this added or new feature is on the race tuner software? I just had my bike retuned due to some pinging, the tech said he used the updated software and smart tune instead of the traditional tune he did the first time. Said he was curious how it would run compared to before. Kinda gave me the *******, like maybe he did not know his chit and his previous tune was not so hot. Bike did seem to run a bit stronger and did not notice ping problem. Weather sucks and doin some cosmetic upgrades so no chance to ride for bout a week. I kinda understood that this is a software thing, monitors your scoot and suggest changes but they must be made manually. Anyone got a better explanation? Thanks in advance.
Road Master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 997
Likes: 3
From: Charlotte, N.C.
Your exactly right, he did not know what he was doing. The Smart tune feature is for the do it yourselfer that is not experienced with a dyno. Even with this feature the program only changes the volumetric efficiency lookup tables and it is up to and experienced tuner to adjust the timing and base A/F table according to the correct TMAP output, throttle position and rpm to get the best performance without killing your fuel mileage.
Pretty much summed it up. Basically it just logs data and the user can make the corrections to his VE tables. I haven't really messed with it since I have a dyno available to me there has never been a need to. TTS mastertune has a similar feature called VTUNE, at least i'm pretty sure they are similar, like I said, i've never used them. Do a search on VTUNE and you should be able to find some good stuff here on it, there are alot of people here more knowledgable than me on them.
Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 709
Likes: 1
From: Maine
Smarttune tuning
So your saying that the Smarttune feature really is not that accurate ? I understand that a dyno tune with a person that knows his sht is going to produce more power but if there is a map for your bike in the software that comes with the new supertuner isn't that as good as a dealer download for an a/c and exhaust? I thought that it would allow someone to tweek the map closer with this smarttune feature. Now i have managed to purchase the new HD tuner and all software and cables plus a pc5 and don't know if i want to use either of them.
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 218
Likes: 1
The Race Tuner does let you tweak it by editing the VE tables by recording data on the dongle and having you make the necessary changes. As for editing the timing, CLB, etc., that is entirely up to your own judgment.
The old SERT lacked a dongle so the "smart tune" makes life easier for basic tuning. I have the SERT on my bike with Daytona logging equipment and the Race Tuner on my wife's 883N. I'll take the SERT any day.
The tech probably loaded the canned map, hooked up the dongle, rod around the block, checked the VE log, changed the VE table and maybe rode around again. Rinse and repeat. You would be better off asking the tech what exactly transpired.
The old SERT lacked a dongle so the "smart tune" makes life easier for basic tuning. I have the SERT on my bike with Daytona logging equipment and the Race Tuner on my wife's 883N. I'll take the SERT any day.
The tech probably loaded the canned map, hooked up the dongle, rod around the block, checked the VE log, changed the VE table and maybe rode around again. Rinse and repeat. You would be better off asking the tech what exactly transpired.
So your saying that the Smarttune feature really is not that accurate ? I understand that a dyno tune with a person that knows his sht is going to produce more power but if there is a map for your bike in the software that comes with the new supertuner isn't that as good as a dealer download for an a/c and exhaust? I thought that it would allow someone to tweek the map closer with this smarttune feature. Now i have managed to purchase the new HD tuner and all software and cables plus a pc5 and don't know if i want to use either of them.
Road Master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 997
Likes: 3
From: Charlotte, N.C.
The Smart tune is very accurate but it is limited to only making changes to the VE tables. IF you have a set A/F ratio this is the ECU primary goal that it wants to achieve and any given time. The VE table is used simultaneously as a back up to "check" and make sure the TMAP and O2 sensors are producing the correct data and the engine is getting the proper fuel. THe VE table is also used when the ECU sees a rich or lean condition and uses the VE table to adjust the fuel delivery and adjust the timing if needed by utilizing the ionizing sensing knock retard feature. But with all of this it is still important to tune each bike individually as we all know each is different and you can just download a map and expect it to be perfect for your bike. It has to be tweaked and a dyno tuner can get it perfect while the Smart tune can get it close to perfect. And that depends on the dyno tuners skills.
So your saying that the Smarttune feature really is not that accurate ? I understand that a dyno tune with a person that knows his sht is going to produce more power but if there is a map for your bike in the software that comes with the new supertuner isn't that as good as a dealer download for an a/c and exhaust? I thought that it would allow someone to tweek the map closer with this smarttune feature. Now i have managed to purchase the new HD tuner and all software and cables plus a pc5 and don't know if i want to use either of them.
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Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 218
Likes: 1
If you're referring to my post I never said it wasn't good or accurate, just that I lack the experience with it to really comment on it. It records data from your bike, you interperate the data and make the changes yourself. It's an ongoing process and nothing that can be done with a quick trip around the block. You have to make extended recording sessions. hit all the RPM range and all the throttle posistions. Takes time. It wouldn't make sence for me to spend the time when I can do it in 3 or 4 hours on a dyno and get better results. Not that it's not good, for people that want to spend the time, it's great. I would want to start with the closest MAP possible though. If you throw a MAP in your bike and go on a 45 minute recording session and your MAP is way off, might not be good.
One could counter that while a dyno tune can cover all RPM and throttle positions, the odds of you driving in all RPM and throttle positions are slim to none whereas the "smart tune" lets you tweak your actual usable range.
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I'm not going to get into a pissing match about it. Smart Tune is just fine for the "tinkerer" that wants to work on his bike. The thing I don't like about it is that you are riding your bike "out of tune" while you are recording data. I'm sure most people don't ride their bikes in all the ranges of a full tune. But I would wager that you'd be surprised at how much of it you actually use at one time or another. It's personal preference, if you want to tune it yourself, have at it.
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
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So your saying that the Smarttune feature really is not that accurate ? I understand that a dyno tune with a person that knows his sht is going to produce more power but if there is a map for your bike in the software that comes with the new supertuner isn't that as good as a dealer download for an a/c and exhaust? I thought that it would allow someone to tweek the map closer with this smarttune feature. Now i have managed to purchase the new HD tuner and all software and cables plus a pc5 and don't know if i want to use either of them.
A dyno tune does the same thing except that the tech is making the VE adjustments based on training and experience vs the software that uses programmed formulas. A dyno tune also includes adjustments to many ofther parameters such as timing , decel, accel, warmup tables etc. Neither Smarttune or Vtune software has algorithyms for these other adjustments (it would be great if they did).
The issue with a dyno tune is that it is very dependent on the capability of the tech, which varies tremendously. If your tech isn't making adjustments to timing as a part of your bike's tuning, you're probably better off just using Smarttune.
The tech that's good and makes the major adjustments to max performance for your build can also use Smarttune for the final steps in the tune. The algorithyms in the software perform the same without variability and are really just adjusting the VE tables based on your O2 sensors output during data runs to match the expected AFRs in the bikes map.
Neither Smarttune or Vtune are going to know if your timing, AFRs or other parameters are correct. But once a good tuner has set the map up (or if a base map is already working well for your bike) than the auto-tuning software can absolutely smooth out the performance and in many cases can measurably improve it by making final adjustments to the VE tables.