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Anyone experiencing high oil temperatures?

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Old Jul 23, 2010 | 04:20 AM
  #11  
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hey jetspeed8...
ive got an 2003 road kingand installed a jagg 10 row oil cooler and 2days ago was in NV desert doing 70+mph.... checked oil level often and found it it a high of 229 degrees. while water boils at 212 the 20W50 amsoil i run in my bike does not... nor does it lose its viscosity at 250 degrees and your harley motor is designed to run at 262 degrees and the rear piston doesnt shut down till somewhere around 313 degrees. so long story short is ur bike is running fine but the oil you use expands under heat which explains why you have to much oil so add less at change time and do the same with your chain oil and transmission oil all of which i run the same oil... yes amsoil 20w50.... ride hard
 
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Old Jul 23, 2010 | 04:47 AM
  #12  
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Your first big mistake was to put an oil temp gauge on that bike. You really are better off not knowing.
Your problems will end with a piece of painter's tape over the readout.
 
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Old Jul 23, 2010 | 05:30 AM
  #13  
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Don't dump your oil unless you need to. Just take a turkey baster and suck 1/2 qt. out if you can. That amsoil is expensive.

Something else you may try in addition to your already existing oil cooler is this;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harle...item4150c73be5
It is a fan unit that will cool your oil when you are stopped in traffic. It is a plug and play unit into your accessory switch. It might help but it is primarily for when you are stuck in traffic.
 
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Old Jul 23, 2010 | 07:10 AM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by roadkinging
hey jetspeed8...
ive got an 2003 road kingand installed a jagg 10 row oil cooler and 2days ago was in NV desert doing 70+mph.... checked oil level often and found it it a high of 229 degrees. while water boils at 212 the 20W50 amsoil i run in my bike does not... nor does it lose its viscosity at 250 degrees and your harley motor is designed to run at 262 degrees and the rear piston doesnt shut down till somewhere around 313 degrees. so long story short is ur bike is running fine but the oil you use expands under heat which explains why you have to much oil so add less at change time and do the same with your chain oil and transmission oil all of which i run the same oil... yes amsoil 20w50.... ride hard
I think the "shut down" (heat management mode) is based on head temperature, not oil temperature...Apples and Oranges
 
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Old Jul 23, 2010 | 09:23 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by roadkinging
...your harley motor is designed to run at 262 degrees and the rear piston doesnt shut down till somewhere around 313 degrees.
When I had an EITMS firmware in the ECM of my '07 it would shut the rear cylinder down at 290° front CHT, and I understand later models are set even lower. Anyway, as Dram said, EITMS is dependent on front CHT, not OT, and the two are not directly related. OT changes very slowly while CHT does so rapidly, so one might be hot while the other is not, and vice versa.
 

Last edited by iclick; Jul 23, 2010 at 10:22 AM.
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Old Jul 23, 2010 | 10:12 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by jetspeed8
Last year I installed a Dakota Digital Dash, which shows (LED) my oil temp. This summer, the dash gauge started blinking at me showing the oil temp had reached 250 degrees. Outside air temps were in the mid 90's, but it is always that hot here in Florida. I got worried, pulled over and checked the oil level (stock HD dipstick). The level was a bit above FULL. I let the bike cool down a bit, started up and continued on. The oil temp had gone down to acceptable temp by then. About 15 minutes later the same thing happened. I stopped at the next Harley dealer I came too and purchased the new Digital readout dipstick and installed that. I was thinking the digital gauge in the dash had to be wrong. Well, the dipstick matched the information I was receiving from the digital dash.
I have a very similar setup except I use a different oil and have SE255 cams installed. The cams didn't change my OT noticeably, so what I'm getting now is what I observed before the cam swap.

You didn't say under what conditions your bike was running 250° OT. Was it in heavy traffic or on the road? Were you riding in a tailwind? All these make a big difference in engine temperature. I run about 200-205° while riding 45mph or faster with no tailwind and it will creep up to 210-215° or so in traffic, with an historical peak of 230° that happens only rarely and hasn't occurred yet this summer. If the traffic stops and stays that way for too long it will hit 230° eventually. I ride in S. LA, which is as hot as FL in summer. When I'm in a strong tailwind the OT can run as much as 20° hotter, which makes since because there's less air flowing over the engine to dissipate heat.

I don't think changing oil will make a difference in your OT, and IMO Amsoil is as good or better overall than Syn3, the latter of which frequently gets an unnecessarily bad rap here. It isn't a bad oil, just grossly overpriced. If you're into experimenting try Mobil 1 15w50 or some other synthetic brand next time and see if that makes a difference, although I doubt if it will.

On the way home, the oil temp once again rose to a very high level (over 250 degrees). After I got home I checked the oil level, with the new dipstick, and wound up taking out almost a pint of oil to get the oil level down to what it is supposed to be.
When you change the oil replenish with 3.5 qts. Warm the bike thoroughly and add 'til it hits the full mark and no more. Remember the amount used in total and use that as your standard for future oil changes. I have the same setup and use 3.75 qts., which is the right level for my bike. Yours would theoretically be the same, so give that a try.

Another long-shot possibility is that your bike is sumping, but unless you've had the cam-chest disassembled since new this isn't likely. Does the bike run well when it is this hot? If performance degrades noticeably after the bike warms up and feels like it's pulling a trailer, this may be the problem. If an o-ring in the cam chest has fallen out or pinched it can cause oil to accumulate in the crankcase, at which time the crank will beat against the oil and cause poor performance and excessive heat. Note that when CHT (not OT) exceeds ~250° on your '07 the ECM will start backing-off on ignition advance, and performance will suffer a bit as a result, but with sumping you will feel a radical difference.

At this point I am wondering if the thermostat is not opening completely in the oil cooler?
That's possible. When the bike is warm but has not reached 185° you should feel some warmth at the cooler but it shouldn't be hot, as some oil escapes the t'stat even when not fully warmed-up. Once it warms up to >185° OT and the t'stat opens it should be hot. If the t-stat is stuck the cooler should never be hot. I haven't seen this and don't have any practical experience with faulty t'stats, but this is the way it should behave.

Could it be the Amzoil? Although I was told that using Amzoil should lower the oil temps.
Probably not more than any other good synthetic, but I wouldn't change oil brands unless you just want to experiment. I don't think this is your problem.
 

Last edited by iclick; Jul 23, 2010 at 10:17 AM.
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Old Jul 23, 2010 | 10:23 AM
  #17  
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I'm copying this from another board, but it pretty much sums up my feelings and experiences as well....
Most people run synthetic. I run synthetic. I don't do this because I hope the engine lasts 200,000 miles. I won't own the bike anywhere close to that long. I use synthetic because the engine runs cooler, and I get a little bit better mileage. There are other benefits like greater thermal protection and better cold flow properties that provide oil flow quicker on cold start up, but again I won't be the one who owns the bike during the last 20% of its life. Having said all of that, it is impossible for me to provide any factual data about engine wear or longevity on conventional vs synthetic oil. But the facts speak for themselves - we don't have heat or lubrication related failures in twin cams. This was true for the three years the twin cam existed before Harley started selling synthetic oil, and it's true today. Things may be a bit different in the desert southwest. I suspect they have some occasional heat related failures, but out here despite our gridlock traffic and 95 degree summers we still do not have heat or lubrication related engine failures. We don't see burned valves, melted pistons, rings that have lost their tension, broken rods, wasted flywheel bearings, or anything else like that. The Twin Cam engine failures we see are very rare, with us rebuilding or sending out for reman only a handful per year. We build lots of engines for performance, but for actual failure purposes I'll bet we don't completely rebuild or reman 15 engines per year across three dealerships and thousands of bikes serviced every year. Of those very rare failures, the most common causes are cam bearing related. We're seeing about 3 - 5 engines per year that spin an inner cam (needle) bearing, thus destroying the case. We see a couple to a few that might ingest some pieces of a tensioner shoe. A couple of big end bearing failures per year, likely because some kind of foreign material went through the bearing. Perhaps a couple of engines with shifted flywheels per year. That's about it. That's pretty good for a dealer group that has a 35,000 customer database. Despite that very low failure rate, I cannot count the number of bikes we see every year that come in with less than a quart of oil left in them. Or sometimes, no oil at all. I've seen a bike come to us that had the oil changed and no oil was put back in, and the customer rode the bike a claimed 400 miles like that. I've seen bikes that idled in 95 degree heat for so long the engine finally shut down, only to cool off, fire right back up, and run fine. Engines that got so hot the exhaust heat shields blued. Engines whos owners claim the oil hasn't been changed in 50,000 miles (and it looked like they were telling the truth!) Despite all of this, the oil is never cooked into sludge and they keep on running. I've seen engines running for well over a thousand miles with the compensator nut backed off and the crank bouncing side to side (tightening the compensator is part of what controls end play in the bottom end). I don't think there is a Japanese, Italian, or German production motorcycle that does a better job of tolerating the abusive, neglectful behavior of some of the owners. The Twin Cam is an incredibly well engineered, understressed engine that had some teething problems in the early years but has turned out to be quite a gem. Are the late EVOs better than Twin Cams? I have a soft spot for EVOs. I like the sound and feel of riding a bike with that engine. The only big twin EVO I owned was a '98 Wide Glide I bought new. I did some performance stuff to it and had a great running bike that never lost a race. I still miss that bike. But I wouldn't even begin to say it had a better or more durable engine than the Twin Cam. It isn't even comparable.
I ride a lot of miles in extreme temperatures, and I push my bike hard. My oil analysis came back looking phenomenal. These bikes will run at 5,000rpm in hundred-degree heat all day long and shake it off like it's nothing. I know, because I've done it. It's my opinion that people spend way too much time and money worrying about so-called "heat issues". I'd rather ride.
 
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Old Jul 23, 2010 | 10:36 AM
  #18  
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The quickest and cheapest way to cool the oil temp on an Ultra is to remove the lowers!

Bwana
 
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Old Jul 23, 2010 | 12:39 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by '05Train
I'm copying this from another board, but it pretty much sums up my feelings and experiences as well....I ride a lot of miles in extreme temperatures, and I push my bike hard. My oil analysis came back looking phenomenal. These bikes will run at 5,000rpm in hundred-degree heat all day long and shake it off like it's nothing. I know, because I've done it. It's my opinion that people spend way too much time and money worrying about so-called "heat issues". I'd rather ride.
This is my 2nd summer running in the desert southwest with no oil cooler and no oil temp gauge. I'm running Mobile One 20W-50 and had NO heat problems. The bike is totally stock. It does not feel unusually hot and no pinging. I'm rarely in stop n go traffic though, but otherwise it's HOT here and the bike is running like a champ. A couple weeks ago I ran about 4 hours in 112 degrees and not a single problem (I was sure suffering, but not the bike, lol).
 
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Old Jul 23, 2010 | 03:29 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by bwana1
The quickest and cheapest way to cool the oil temp on an Ultra is to remove the lowers!
HD claims fairing lowers will actually aid in cooling while moving but may hinder it while stationary because they trap heat. In my experience over three summers, oil-temps have run about 5° cooler at highway speeds after installing lowers and I've seen no change at slower speeds or while stationary. I don't know where fairing lowers gained the reputation of increasing engine heat or what effect they have on other bikes, but this has not been the case with mine. Keep in mind I'm also running an oil cooler, which may be a factor.
 
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