Harley engineers???????????
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 8
From: Detroit, the asshole of America
They run hot because they have to. You can't pass emissions tests running pig rich. So you either deal with the heat or no longer sell air cooled motorcycles. It's not rocket science. 
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 69
From: Al Bu Ker Key, New Mexico
How many more times are we gonna beat this dead horse? Bigger engine, more heat! Add a catalytic converter, more heat! Choke the engine down to meet EPA demands, more heat! My 1999 EVO motor was NEVER as hot as my Twin-Cam 96 but its NOT the same motor! As has been said, water cooling is NOT gonna take away the heat of a big engine. Go ride that monstor Honda 1800 and compare its heat output to the Harley Twin-Cam 96 and see for yourself.
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,832
Likes: 37
From: Rockland County, NY
Scorpion and hoethree have it right. Water cooled bike still has the same heat. It's just dissipated from the engine throught the radiator but it's still the same heat.
Goldwing owners scream about the heat that finds its way up throught that plastic shroud that encloses the whole bike. Same with the ST-1300s and other fared water cooled bikes. The mistake everyone makes is in assuming that there is less heat generated by these water cooled motors. The heat is only transferred to the radiator which then has to lose that heat in your direction.
Our motors are hotter than the old ones because they're bigger. A slight retune to make them run richer will help. Unless you're sitting still the heat is not a factor. Who rides a bike to sit still anyway. If I got through this 95* summer without a problem it must not be that bad. Stop riding in shorts and flip flops and you'll hardly notice the heat. After all, it's a motorcycle. You're sitting right on top of an exposed motor. Expect some heat. Rant over, thanks for listening. I feel better now...
Goldwing owners scream about the heat that finds its way up throught that plastic shroud that encloses the whole bike. Same with the ST-1300s and other fared water cooled bikes. The mistake everyone makes is in assuming that there is less heat generated by these water cooled motors. The heat is only transferred to the radiator which then has to lose that heat in your direction.
Our motors are hotter than the old ones because they're bigger. A slight retune to make them run richer will help. Unless you're sitting still the heat is not a factor. Who rides a bike to sit still anyway. If I got through this 95* summer without a problem it must not be that bad. Stop riding in shorts and flip flops and you'll hardly notice the heat. After all, it's a motorcycle. You're sitting right on top of an exposed motor. Expect some heat. Rant over, thanks for listening. I feel better now...
One of the biggest factors no one ever mentions about the Twin Cam motor is fin area. The Twinkie dissapates heat at a faster rate and more effectivly than previous motors. So, yes, you will feel the heat...
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 318
Likes: 1
From: Central Texas
Since you are so smart and we are all so stupid for not expecting our AIR COOLED motor to idle all day in a concrete box in the desert, could you please provide the story where HD supposedly idles all their motors for hours?
In 2003, the Desert Proving Grounds became the location of the Harley-Davidson full vehicle test operations in the southwest. Located in Mesa, Arizona, this facility is one of three full vehicle test facilities responsible for the durability and developmental testing of current and future Harley-Davidson products. More than one million miles of testing is done on-site here each year. The southwest climate allows for year-round testing with a wide range of ambient temperatures, humidity ranges and altitudes. The proving ground itself consists of more than 50 miles of paved roads, specialized test facilities such as ABS test surfaces, water intrusion and corrosion facilities, as well as unpaved road courses. Accelerated durability testing utilizes several different surfaces around the proving ground providing chassis inputs with a wide range of frequencies and amplitudes.
They also explained what they do to their bikes on the Vrod show, and yes letting them idle in the heat in a cyinder block bunker is one of their tests.
Yes I know why the motor runs hot.
No this is not my first Harley.
Yes you can spend more money to make it cooler.
No I do not want a liquid cooled motor.
Yes I love my Harley.
Just pisses me off that the MoCo is telling us this is a new and improved motor.
Last edited by steelpony5555; Sep 30, 2010 at 12:58 PM.
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 671
Likes: 1
From: Maryland
What's the big deal? Any internal combustion motor generates heat whether its water cooled or air cooled. Now let me take a moment and try to rationalize and break down this thread.. If the motor is water cooled, the operating temperature of the motor will be around 200 degrees. That's is generally what most motors run with a radiator. So lets say you are sitting at a light in traffic and the radiator fan kicks on to cool the motor. Don't you think that the motor will still be hot between your legs? Maybe not as hot as an air cooled, but its going to generate heat right? You can shut the air cooled motor off if you are in fear of boiling the oil. Either way you turn this and look at this. Motors generate heat.
Look, do you want to ride a motorcycle and deal with the elements and what comes along with riding? Or would you rather join the cheese and wine crowd and say, Its just to hot to ride lovie, lets go to the bar in our Harley stuff and mingle with the lower class.
Look, do you want to ride a motorcycle and deal with the elements and what comes along with riding? Or would you rather join the cheese and wine crowd and say, Its just to hot to ride lovie, lets go to the bar in our Harley stuff and mingle with the lower class.
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 80
Likes: 1
From: Tucson
My Experience
I have a 2006 Ultra, Just got back from Branson, the Dragon and Trace Pkwy the day before yesterday via Tucson.
It was bumper to bumper in Branson and my thighs were very hot as it was in the afternoon.
But that is the only hour or so on the whole trip I even noticed the heat.
I believe the post 06 bikes are hotter but have not ridden one. I do not believe in this case ci has much to do with it as I have a 95 with 204's and one or 8 ci is not going to make that much difference.
I do believe fuel management has much to do with it and the lean condition many have stated.
I had a GW, no way are they as hot as an Ultra, period! Especially for the passenger. My girl friend, who has since divorced me loved the Harley. But she went on numerous 8 and 9 thousand mile trips with me and made it clear the Ultra was much warmer for the passenger too.
Again it is hardly noticeable unless in town and traffic is heavy, since I do not commute, it is not a big issue.
What do we expect with a large V-Twin mounted between our legs that is air cooled only and no real protection from the power plant. Then add the pipes next to our legs and feet.
I believe HD could do a better job with this heat issue (with/out HD the tax) but until they do, I will keep the Ultra and tolerate the imperfections. I like the bike.
Not to hijack the thread but I would like to know from mechanics if the cams could/do make much difference in the cooling these bikes down. We all here enough about pipes, headers, serts etc.
It was bumper to bumper in Branson and my thighs were very hot as it was in the afternoon.
But that is the only hour or so on the whole trip I even noticed the heat.
I believe the post 06 bikes are hotter but have not ridden one. I do not believe in this case ci has much to do with it as I have a 95 with 204's and one or 8 ci is not going to make that much difference.
I do believe fuel management has much to do with it and the lean condition many have stated.
I had a GW, no way are they as hot as an Ultra, period! Especially for the passenger. My girl friend, who has since divorced me loved the Harley. But she went on numerous 8 and 9 thousand mile trips with me and made it clear the Ultra was much warmer for the passenger too.
Again it is hardly noticeable unless in town and traffic is heavy, since I do not commute, it is not a big issue.
What do we expect with a large V-Twin mounted between our legs that is air cooled only and no real protection from the power plant. Then add the pipes next to our legs and feet.
I believe HD could do a better job with this heat issue (with/out HD the tax) but until they do, I will keep the Ultra and tolerate the imperfections. I like the bike.
Not to hijack the thread but I would like to know from mechanics if the cams could/do make much difference in the cooling these bikes down. We all here enough about pipes, headers, serts etc.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,788
Likes: 4
From: Here
No not smart but the internet is a wonderful thing, this is from Harleys own site===
In 2003, the Desert Proving Grounds became the location of the Harley-Davidson full vehicle test operations in the southwest. Located in Mesa, Arizona, this facility is one of three full vehicle test facilities responsible for the durability and developmental testing of current and future Harley-Davidson products. More than one million miles of testing is done on-site here each year. The southwest climate allows for year-round testing with a wide range of ambient temperatures, humidity ranges and altitudes. The proving ground itself consists of more than 50 miles of paved roads, specialized test facilities such as ABS test surfaces, water intrusion and corrosion facilities, as well as unpaved road courses. Accelerated durability testing utilizes several different surfaces around the proving ground providing chassis inputs with a wide range of frequencies and amplitudes.
They also explained what they do to their bikes on the Vrod show, and yes letting them idle in the heat in a cyinder block bunker is one of their tests.
Yes I know why the motor runs hot.
No this is not my first Harley.
Yes you can spend more money to make it cooler.
No I do not want a liquid cooled motor.
Yes I love my Harley.
Just pisses me off that the MoCo is telling us this is a new and improved motor.
In 2003, the Desert Proving Grounds became the location of the Harley-Davidson full vehicle test operations in the southwest. Located in Mesa, Arizona, this facility is one of three full vehicle test facilities responsible for the durability and developmental testing of current and future Harley-Davidson products. More than one million miles of testing is done on-site here each year. The southwest climate allows for year-round testing with a wide range of ambient temperatures, humidity ranges and altitudes. The proving ground itself consists of more than 50 miles of paved roads, specialized test facilities such as ABS test surfaces, water intrusion and corrosion facilities, as well as unpaved road courses. Accelerated durability testing utilizes several different surfaces around the proving ground providing chassis inputs with a wide range of frequencies and amplitudes.
They also explained what they do to their bikes on the Vrod show, and yes letting them idle in the heat in a cyinder block bunker is one of their tests.
Yes I know why the motor runs hot.
No this is not my first Harley.
Yes you can spend more money to make it cooler.
No I do not want a liquid cooled motor.
Yes I love my Harley.
Just pisses me off that the MoCo is telling us this is a new and improved motor.
Last edited by 07RoadHawg; Sep 30, 2010 at 03:26 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,301
Likes: 7
No not smart but the internet is a wonderful thing, this is from Harleys own site===
In 2003, the Desert Proving Grounds became the location of the Harley-Davidson full vehicle test operations in the southwest. Located in Mesa, Arizona, this facility is one of three full vehicle test facilities responsible for the durability and developmental testing of current and future Harley-Davidson products. More than one million miles of testing is done on-site here each year. The southwest climate allows for year-round testing with a wide range of ambient temperatures, humidity ranges and altitudes. The proving ground itself consists of more than 50 miles of paved roads, specialized test facilities such as ABS test surfaces, water intrusion and corrosion facilities, as well as unpaved road courses. Accelerated durability testing utilizes several different surfaces around the proving ground providing chassis inputs with a wide range of frequencies and amplitudes.
They also explained what they do to their bikes on the Vrod show, and yes letting them idle in the heat in a cyinder block bunker is one of their tests.
Yes I know why the motor runs hot.
No this is not my first Harley.
Yes you can spend more money to make it cooler.
No I do not want a liquid cooled motor.
Yes I love my Harley.
Just pisses me off that the MoCo is telling us this is a new and improved motor.
In 2003, the Desert Proving Grounds became the location of the Harley-Davidson full vehicle test operations in the southwest. Located in Mesa, Arizona, this facility is one of three full vehicle test facilities responsible for the durability and developmental testing of current and future Harley-Davidson products. More than one million miles of testing is done on-site here each year. The southwest climate allows for year-round testing with a wide range of ambient temperatures, humidity ranges and altitudes. The proving ground itself consists of more than 50 miles of paved roads, specialized test facilities such as ABS test surfaces, water intrusion and corrosion facilities, as well as unpaved road courses. Accelerated durability testing utilizes several different surfaces around the proving ground providing chassis inputs with a wide range of frequencies and amplitudes.
They also explained what they do to their bikes on the Vrod show, and yes letting them idle in the heat in a cyinder block bunker is one of their tests.
Yes I know why the motor runs hot.
No this is not my first Harley.
Yes you can spend more money to make it cooler.
No I do not want a liquid cooled motor.
Yes I love my Harley.
Just pisses me off that the MoCo is telling us this is a new and improved motor.
You copy the description of the testing facility the add your own "then they..." like this offers some sort of proof.
Nice try