Hi Speed Wobble
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Tourer
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 320
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From: Detroit
Hi Speed Wobble
Hello all, first post here, looking for help.
I bought my 96 FLHTC in april with 36,000 miles. At the time of purchase the tires were shot. Front tire was bald on the left side. Brought it home on saturday, had new H-D stamped Dunlop's installed on monday. This bike also has Ultra lowers on it. The bike has never been down or wrecked.
At 80-85 mph when going strait the front end starts wobbling. The bars go left to right. I can either accel or decel out of it. I have better than 2000 miles on the new rubber, and have been playing with tire pressure.
I also greased the neck and it seemed to help a little, but it still wobbles.
I've been told it may be air turbulence with the lowers pushing the fender around, but I dont buy that.
What do I need to do to correct this or is it normal?
Thanks
I bought my 96 FLHTC in april with 36,000 miles. At the time of purchase the tires were shot. Front tire was bald on the left side. Brought it home on saturday, had new H-D stamped Dunlop's installed on monday. This bike also has Ultra lowers on it. The bike has never been down or wrecked.
At 80-85 mph when going strait the front end starts wobbling. The bars go left to right. I can either accel or decel out of it. I have better than 2000 miles on the new rubber, and have been playing with tire pressure.
I also greased the neck and it seemed to help a little, but it still wobbles.
I've been told it may be air turbulence with the lowers pushing the fender around, but I dont buy that.
What do I need to do to correct this or is it normal?
Thanks
Banned
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 14,496
Likes: 156
From:
RE: Hi Speed Wobble
>>>What do I need to do to correct this or is it normal?
No , It's definately not normal, even though there are dealers that say it is.
There have been a few police departments that have stopped using harleys because of this situation.
No body seems to have gotten a handle on it yet but feel that it may be the aerodynamics of the front end causing it.
Be very carefull to try to avoid the speed at which this happens, as it has proved to be fatal to some riders.
I'd be interested in the removal of the windshield and a retest to see if it makes a difference. Wonder if the fairing would make a difference too.
If a close inspection of the neck bearings and other front end parts do not reveal anything, there should be a solution from hD , but they haven't found anything yet dispite many complaints by customers.
No , It's definately not normal, even though there are dealers that say it is.
There have been a few police departments that have stopped using harleys because of this situation.
No body seems to have gotten a handle on it yet but feel that it may be the aerodynamics of the front end causing it.
Be very carefull to try to avoid the speed at which this happens, as it has proved to be fatal to some riders.
I'd be interested in the removal of the windshield and a retest to see if it makes a difference. Wonder if the fairing would make a difference too.
If a close inspection of the neck bearings and other front end parts do not reveal anything, there should be a solution from hD , but they haven't found anything yet dispite many complaints by customers.
Road Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,121
Likes: 3
From: Mass.
RE: Hi Speed Wobble
TCSD,
First, with that mileage when was the last major,(10,000 mi.) service? If you don't know then do it, it will cover all of the maintainance items that will cause a wobble, IE. adjust neck bearings, inspect swingarm pivot/mounts and alignment.
If you still have the problem are you following a large vehicle such as a trailer truck? They cause an alternating vortex to come off of the sides of the vehicle and will steer your bike via the fairing, that's why I ride a Road Glide.
Next, how much weight is in the Tour Pac? Weight above and behind the rear axel will cause a wobble, empty it and see if there is a difference.
I have listed the possible corrections in order of importance, let us know how it works out.
DC.
First, with that mileage when was the last major,(10,000 mi.) service? If you don't know then do it, it will cover all of the maintainance items that will cause a wobble, IE. adjust neck bearings, inspect swingarm pivot/mounts and alignment.
If you still have the problem are you following a large vehicle such as a trailer truck? They cause an alternating vortex to come off of the sides of the vehicle and will steer your bike via the fairing, that's why I ride a Road Glide.
Next, how much weight is in the Tour Pac? Weight above and behind the rear axel will cause a wobble, empty it and see if there is a difference.
I have listed the possible corrections in order of importance, let us know how it works out.
DC.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 320
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From: Detroit
RE: Hi Speed Wobble
Thanks for the quick replies.
I know what you mean about being around trucks, its not that I'm talking about. The strange thing is that the wobble doesnt happen when I'm carrying a passenger. It's smooth and steady at speed.
The wobble happens when I'm alone with no weight in the tour-pack, left bag empty, right bag full of leather.
A pair of chaps, 2 jackets, and some gloves. That small load doesnt effect how straight it goes down the road.
I am the 4th owner of this bike. 3 previous owners were my dad, and two of his co-workers and riding partners. All three are gear heads. My dad only had the bike for a short time before buying a 05 Ultra.
He says he never noticed any wobble, but really diddnt run it that hard to find this a problem.
The original owner bought the bike with spoke wheels, then lowered it. My dad recalls him falling behind and saying he couldnt ride that fast. The second guy got rid of the lowering kit, and put mags on it.
When I had the new tires installed there was an issue with the rear axle. The spacers that are on the bike will not allow the threaded end to get far enough into the castle nut to get a cotter pin into the hole. We used a lock washer and loc-tite until I get that straightened out. I may post pics of both sides of the rear axle. I dont know why axle spacing would be different between mags and spokes.
I have a service manual. I will go through the 10k service procedure and check things out.
thanks again for the replies!
I know what you mean about being around trucks, its not that I'm talking about. The strange thing is that the wobble doesnt happen when I'm carrying a passenger. It's smooth and steady at speed.
The wobble happens when I'm alone with no weight in the tour-pack, left bag empty, right bag full of leather.
A pair of chaps, 2 jackets, and some gloves. That small load doesnt effect how straight it goes down the road.
I am the 4th owner of this bike. 3 previous owners were my dad, and two of his co-workers and riding partners. All three are gear heads. My dad only had the bike for a short time before buying a 05 Ultra.
He says he never noticed any wobble, but really diddnt run it that hard to find this a problem.
The original owner bought the bike with spoke wheels, then lowered it. My dad recalls him falling behind and saying he couldnt ride that fast. The second guy got rid of the lowering kit, and put mags on it.
When I had the new tires installed there was an issue with the rear axle. The spacers that are on the bike will not allow the threaded end to get far enough into the castle nut to get a cotter pin into the hole. We used a lock washer and loc-tite until I get that straightened out. I may post pics of both sides of the rear axle. I dont know why axle spacing would be different between mags and spokes.
I have a service manual. I will go through the 10k service procedure and check things out.
thanks again for the replies!
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 320
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From: Detroit
RE: Hi Speed Wobble
When I had the bike on the jack cleaning the front wheel I did notece it took some effort to rotate the wheel.
It takes the same effort to turn 360, so I figured thats the way it is. Should the wheel free spin by hand?
When I'm carrying a passenger I get a front brake squeel when coming to a stop. I've been shopping for full floater rotors.
It takes the same effort to turn 360, so I figured thats the way it is. Should the wheel free spin by hand?
When I'm carrying a passenger I get a front brake squeel when coming to a stop. I've been shopping for full floater rotors.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,934
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From: Bloomfield, NM
RE: Hi Speed Wobble
On the year model you have, there could be a lot of idfference between wheels. There are shims in the wheel assembly that control how much end play the axles have, and a few thousands of an inch make a lot of difference. Too tight, lock up. Too loose, wobble.
You need a dial indicator with a magnetic base to check this. You should have between .002 and .006 end play with the wheel torqued to spec. On your year bike that is about 65 ft lbs. if I remember correctly.
If you have changed wheels back and forth you probably have a spacing issue. I have taken a wheel off, and put it back on and had the spacing change one of two thousands. You have to check this every time the wheel is changed, and shim accordingly.
As far as the front wheel not being free wheeling, it won't be. The discs are running between two brake pads that usually have slight contact. It shouldn't be too tight, but it will take some effort to make it go 360 degrees with one spin.
Regards,
Bill
You need a dial indicator with a magnetic base to check this. You should have between .002 and .006 end play with the wheel torqued to spec. On your year bike that is about 65 ft lbs. if I remember correctly.
If you have changed wheels back and forth you probably have a spacing issue. I have taken a wheel off, and put it back on and had the spacing change one of two thousands. You have to check this every time the wheel is changed, and shim accordingly.
As far as the front wheel not being free wheeling, it won't be. The discs are running between two brake pads that usually have slight contact. It shouldn't be too tight, but it will take some effort to make it go 360 degrees with one spin.
Regards,
Bill
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Banned
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 14,496
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From:
RE: Hi Speed Wobble
V2
Bill makes some very good points here, do you know if the wheels are the proper ones for your model bike??? This could be part of the issue you have being you say that the axle doesn't go in far enough to pin it. I would suggest to get this issue with the castle nut and pin taken care of before too much riding is done. With a spacing issue, if by chance it is too tight, it can seize the bearings which could then unscrew the nut without a pin in it if it were installed in reverse like on some bikes to avoid removal of the mufflers to remove the axle.
Find out where the trouble lies and fix it properly. JMHO
Bill makes some very good points here, do you know if the wheels are the proper ones for your model bike??? This could be part of the issue you have being you say that the axle doesn't go in far enough to pin it. I would suggest to get this issue with the castle nut and pin taken care of before too much riding is done. With a spacing issue, if by chance it is too tight, it can seize the bearings which could then unscrew the nut without a pin in it if it were installed in reverse like on some bikes to avoid removal of the mufflers to remove the axle.
Find out where the trouble lies and fix it properly. JMHO
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 75
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From:
RE: Hi Speed Wobble
This was covered recently on a UK forum, Apart from everything else that's already been mentioned, another contributing factor is the air shocks. These are considered to be the most likely cause of the famous Road King Weave. If the membrane separating the air from the fluid is punctured then you will get uneven damping causing the wheel...front or back to osilate. This can develop into a tank slapper which is what you have described, and can become so violent that it can throw you off. Harley stopped installing the air front suspension on later models..I wonder why. The best way to go on the rear is progressive 440's, and rebuild the fronts. When you pump up the shocks, if you get a dribble of oil come out when you release the pump, then one of the shocks is faulty and must be replaced with a pair of new ones.
Brian.
Brian.