Have a PCV headed my way from Fuel Moto as part of their stage 1 power pack and have recently heard that the PCV does not use the O2 sensors. Is that correct?

Then my next question is, if it doesn't use the O2 sensors, how well do the bikes handle changes in altitude if the ECM isn't adjusting the air/fuel ratio for the different altitudes. The reason why I'm asking this is I often can go from sea level to 7000 foot in less than an hour. And one thing I like about the stock fuel injection is the bike runs flawlessly at any altitude. Am I going to lose this with the PCV?

 

Buy a zippers T max or use auto tune with the PCV. That will solve all of those problems for you. You would probably be fine and never notice a thing with just the PCV but do some type of Auto Tune and that will make you feel better.

 

It depends on the map you get. If you get a closed loop map then the sensors wont be needed. I believe PCV has an auto tune function in which case you will need the sensors. You need to call fuel moto and ask him these questions. Tell him your riding style and let him write a tune for you

 

i have the pc-v and have just a regular map from fuelmoto .and have gone from newjersey which is about sea level to the mountains of virginia and north carolina which are around 3-5000 ft above sea level and it seemed to work just fine .just my experience. may be different at 7000 ft. or more

 

The Delphi speed density system calculates fuel delivery based on air mass entering the motor. The factory nb O2 sensors are there primarily to keep the mixture at an EPA mandated mixture. Here is some info from our website:

All EFI Harley models are required to meet very lean EPA emissions standards with the stock components. The entire closed loop area has an AFR target of 14.6:1 which is very lean. In most calibrations closed loop is from idle up to approx 60% throttle or 80 kPa which during this time the ECM uses feedback from various sensors including the stock narrowband O2 sensors. The NB O2 sensors can only measure a small area near stoich which is 14.6:1 (+/- about .3) Besides the EFI systems ability to adjust for conditions such as ambient temperature, barometric pressure, etc... the EFI is designed to adjust for small variations such as inconsistencies in fuels and production tolerances based on the stock components but the primary function is to keep the AFR at 14.6:1. Although there is a window of adjustment It is simply not in its strategy or is it capable of adjusting for free flowing components such as an air cleaner or exhaust system. When you change these parts you can easily put the fuel requirements well outside of the EFI's window of adjustment as it is calibrated for the stock components. This is a problem, especially considering the closed loop AFR target in the stock calibration is 14.6:1 which is already very lean. So what happens? You guessed it, if your fuel requirements are beyond the ECM's adjustment the mixture goes dangerously lean, well above 15:1. This is where you will feel poor throttle response, surging, detonation and in extreme cases engine damage. Also note that the NB O2 sensors are of little help as they have major limitations from a tuning standpoint. Since the sensors can only measure a small are near 14.6:1 and only provide feedback when they are switching and in closed loop, the sensors simply cannot provide feedback to the ECM for a mixture they cannot measure in the first place. This also includes includes all of the open loop areas which are all of the upper RPM's and throttle positions as well as wide open throttle. These higher RPM regions are generally not as much of a problem as the stock AFR targets have to be richer to prevent detonation, but they are certainly not optimum

 

Jamie, so how well will the bike with the PCV installed handle going from sea level to 7000 foot altitude?

 

I've got an '07 RKC with V&H True Duals, Dresser Ovals, SE A/C and a PCIII w/O2 eliminators. I'm running the canned map from Power Commander for this configuration and I have no problems. I rode two-up to the summit of Mt. Evans (14,240') the last week of August and it ran just fine.

 

I ride mine with a PC regularly up to 10,000'. Works great.

 

I m running a map on PCV from Jamie in same conditions/elevations as you. From Bullhead City 554' to 7000' around Flagstaff and it performs great. Pretty sure have hit even further extremes out in the Mojave (low) and up to Skull Valley (high).

I do have the AuoTune from FM on my bench but plan on using it this winter for better tuning after install of cams.

 

why not just buy it, and have Jamie create a map for sea level and a map for higher altitude and switch them.

The newer PC have a function which allows you to switch between two maps stored in memory with an external switch . .

Most people use it for "street" and "strip", but it could conceivably be used for any combination of maps.


BD