Educate me on Stage1 vs 2 vs 3
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
From: Colorado
Educate me on Stage1 vs 2 vs 3
OK, I've owned and/or ridden just about every kind of bike under the sun, from MX to Enduros, to Crotch Rockets, to Japanses Cruisers, but just entered the Harely World. From my Sport Bike days, and time spent at the track, I know that there are two "basic" levels of performance upgrades, followed by the insane/unlimited upgrades that professional racers do with personal and factory money. For example:
Level 1 upgrade:
Slip on after-market pipe and high-flow air filter
Level 2 upgrade:
Full system exhaust, high flow air filter, and power commander
Level 3 upgrade:
Same as Level 2 with advanced engine mods/tweeks
Now let's talk Harley's. Upon entering this world, I have frequently heard the terms Stage 1 and Stage 2, which I "think" I sorta understand, but I've also heard of Stage 3, which I cannot fully comprehend.
In regards to a 2011 103 RCG, I've decided that I "initially" want to do V&H Monster Rounds, a Screamin Eagle Air Cleaner, and a Dynojet PC-V, as it will allow me to easily run another map down the road when I add some TW-555 Wood Cams in a couple years when the manufacturer warranty expires.
According to what I've been reading, these desired upgrades (with or without) the Cam upgrade, would be a Stage 1 upgrade. Meanwhile, if I did a full system exhaust (with headers), the same Cams and PCV, and a heavy breather air cleaner, then it would be a Stage 2 upgrade.
I'm not sure if this is correct or not, hence my reason for this thread. And I still don't get the whole Stage 3 thing. Can somebody please break down this whole Stage 1/2/3 upgrade thing down for me in lamens terms and explain it to me like I was 12-years-old. I'm tired or guessing...???
Level 1 upgrade:
Slip on after-market pipe and high-flow air filter
Level 2 upgrade:
Full system exhaust, high flow air filter, and power commander
Level 3 upgrade:
Same as Level 2 with advanced engine mods/tweeks
Now let's talk Harley's. Upon entering this world, I have frequently heard the terms Stage 1 and Stage 2, which I "think" I sorta understand, but I've also heard of Stage 3, which I cannot fully comprehend.
In regards to a 2011 103 RCG, I've decided that I "initially" want to do V&H Monster Rounds, a Screamin Eagle Air Cleaner, and a Dynojet PC-V, as it will allow me to easily run another map down the road when I add some TW-555 Wood Cams in a couple years when the manufacturer warranty expires.
According to what I've been reading, these desired upgrades (with or without) the Cam upgrade, would be a Stage 1 upgrade. Meanwhile, if I did a full system exhaust (with headers), the same Cams and PCV, and a heavy breather air cleaner, then it would be a Stage 2 upgrade.
I'm not sure if this is correct or not, hence my reason for this thread. And I still don't get the whole Stage 3 thing. Can somebody please break down this whole Stage 1/2/3 upgrade thing down for me in lamens terms and explain it to me like I was 12-years-old. I'm tired or guessing...???
Road Master
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 783
Likes: 66
From: Sacramento
I think you've already nailed it. I'd add cams to stage 2 though. A bore job with mods to the heads might also qualify in stage 2. Head porting with the appropriate cams and bore would be stage 3. Others might require a certain displacement criteria to qualify. The options are changing so fast and what used to be a mind blowing option is now becoming more standard.
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
From: So Cal
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 4
From: Fennario
Tek, I'd say you are roughly right. Stage 1 includes the mufflers and air intake, and can include a download or a fuel management device.
You listed power commander as part of stage 2, but that is a particular product name, not a category of fuel management.
Stage 2 would involve adding new cams, and for me anyway, replacing the stock head pipe with a cat-less setup like V&H Dresser Duals.
You listed power commander as part of stage 2, but that is a particular product name, not a category of fuel management.
Stage 2 would involve adding new cams, and for me anyway, replacing the stock head pipe with a cat-less setup like V&H Dresser Duals.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
From: Colorado
Thanks for everyone else's feedback too...!!!
Now I am an expert.
Last edited by Tek74; Dec 24, 2010 at 01:15 PM.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 173
From: Simi Valley, CA
You know what this reminds me of. Back in my car days people would say I've got 3/4 race cam. Never made much sense to me. Same situation here with Stage 1, Stage 2, etc.
How many cam grinds fit into that 3/4 umbrella? Must be hundreds. Same goes for Stage 1, Stage 2, etc. How many different mufflers, how many different air filters, cams, tuners, etc.?
So basically Stage1, Stage 2 or any other descriptor doesn't mean ****, other than being a simple generalization that some mods have been made.
That's my take.
How many cam grinds fit into that 3/4 umbrella? Must be hundreds. Same goes for Stage 1, Stage 2, etc. How many different mufflers, how many different air filters, cams, tuners, etc.?
So basically Stage1, Stage 2 or any other descriptor doesn't mean ****, other than being a simple generalization that some mods have been made.
That's my take.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Northern Virginia
I like to explain it like this...
Stage I: exhaust(can be full system or slip-ons), intake, fuel management
Stage II: stage I and cams...usually a big bore is done here too
Stage III: stage II and headwork
Stage IV: stage I and forced induction (turbo/super-charger). Cams/headwork are not necessarily needed here but to get the ultimate performance they are used. An example of a high end stage IV bike would be the current World's Fastest Bagger.
Stage I: exhaust(can be full system or slip-ons), intake, fuel management
Stage II: stage I and cams...usually a big bore is done here too
Stage III: stage II and headwork
Stage IV: stage I and forced induction (turbo/super-charger). Cams/headwork are not necessarily needed here but to get the ultimate performance they are used. An example of a high end stage IV bike would be the current World's Fastest Bagger.
Last edited by mattman22033; Dec 24, 2010 at 01:23 PM.
You know what this reminds me of. Back in my car days people would say I've got 3/4 race cam. Never made much sense to me. Same situation here with Stage 1, Stage 2, etc.
How many cam grinds fit into that 3/4 umbrella? Must be hundreds. Same goes for Stage 1, Stage 2, etc. How many different mufflers, how many different air filters, cams, tuners, etc.?
So basically Stage1, Stage 2 or any other descriptor doesn't mean ****, other than being a simple generalization that some mods have been made.
That's my take.
How many cam grinds fit into that 3/4 umbrella? Must be hundreds. Same goes for Stage 1, Stage 2, etc. How many different mufflers, how many different air filters, cams, tuners, etc.?
So basically Stage1, Stage 2 or any other descriptor doesn't mean ****, other than being a simple generalization that some mods have been made.
That's my take.