I didn't mean to start a pissing match with my question, though I probably should have known better on the internet <LOL>

I absolutely respect the vendors who have invested their time, money, blood, sweat and tears to build a business and create a product to improve the performance of our machines. These are the guys who are creating the jobs in America and my hat is off to them! It's an added bonus when they will get involved in the community and share what they know.

I also respect those guys working in their own garage who have taken our pasttime to the next level by experimenting, learning, and being creative to try new and different things. America was built on this kind of ingenuity. (OK, sounds like I should be cueing The Star Spangled Banner).

Fabrik8r, I like the way you think and have already quoted you once, let me paraphrase you again. Every build is different and a smart guy is gonna put his bike on the dyno for HIS configuration.

My bike has the Stage 1, SEST, SE slip-ons and was dyno'd at the 1,000 mile service (when I switched to synth, just to make this an oil thread, too <grin>) to optimize for MY configuration and the altitudes - I live at 6,700 feet.

At 20,000, the header was split, re-welded, ceramic coated inside and out (my only reason for de-catting was the excessive right-side heat) and re-installed over the winter without benefit of a dyno since the shop told me they needed temps averaging above 50/60* for true readings, and I've just never gotten back around to having it done.

As I've said before, I have no doubt that I have substantially changed the internal dynamics of the exhaust system, but the engine runs as smoothly as it did before (based only on seat feel). I run a lot of Iron Butt rides so I am in the habit of collecting and logging gas receipts and I haven't seen any measureable change in gas mileage. Right side heat is A LOT less, exhaust rumble is quite a bit throatier, and I like to think the the throttle response is a bit livelier but I will concede that it's so small it might just be wishful thinking on my part since I spent money.

So, I got a chuckle out of the first-time Harley owner/expert who said - twice - that he wasn't bashing my "half-a$$ed mods", but I seem to have gotten everything I wanted and nothing I didn't want out of this build.

But how would I recognize the negatives of cross-talk? Back to the original question - what would the symptoms be?

 

Wildly fluctuating VEs would be the primary detriment.

 

[quote=fabrik8r;9006665]
I like the way you think. However, the O2s do not switch on and off in sync with ignition or valve timing, they are on all the time. As the rpms change, exhaust gas velocity changes, if the sensors switched in a pulse manner as you suggest there would be a very narrow window where the exhaust gas pulse and "sensor on" cycle would meet, it would be practically useless.

I just replayed my last TTS VTune session and both the front and rear sensors do indeed switch on and off. Now, I'm NOT saying that they are in sync with ignition or valve timing but they do switch on and off.

 

Got me on this one - what are "VEs" and how would they show themselves on the road?

 

I said it twice to convey a point that I wasn't bashing. And since it's next to impossible to express tone or sincerity in black and white text, I mentioned it twice. The internet forums regardless of topic attract a@@holes and I was trying to not come across as such. Apologies if I did. I also ended by saying I hope it works for you and make you smile every time you ride it. Words I meant.

You are correct in that this is my first Harley. This is the first stage of my early adult life that I have had the disposable income to spend this kind of money on a Harley. Wanted one for years. Everyone has to start somewhere. But I can't control when my parent's got it on and made me, so my age may be a disadvantage to some. LOL.

I do have a moderate amount of knowledge of exhaust, from years racing motocross to helping a friend build a few drag cars. Even if the MOCO wants people to believe their motors are special, they still fall under the same rules of combustion that all other engines do. I am no tuner, and I respect the opinions guys like Jamie and others give me, as they are TRUE experts in their craft.

I'm glad I made you chuckle, and I still mean what I said in that I hope you are enjoying your bike. I am glad your are satisfied with your mods.

 

[quote=blackdog01;9007940]I have no idea what you are looking at, I have a non-O2 EFI '06 with a seperate O2 datalogger and PC III. I understand the ECM transitions in and out of closed loop and choses weather or not to ignore the O2 signal based on RPM/TPS table, but I still don't think the sensors switch on and off as the engine fires. Honestly I don't know, its off my radar, lifeline, anyone.

 

The o2 sensors do not switch on and off. All they do is output a voltage based on the difference of oxygen between the inside and outside of the pipe. If you are looking at the o2 activity buttons on your histogram all that displays is green = voltage high, yellow = voltage low.

 

VE - Volumetric Efficiency

Volumetric efficiency is a percentage rating of how much air is flowing through the engine while running as compared to its theoretical capacity.

When tuning with TTS Mastertune you need to calibrate your VE tables to how much air is actually flowing at load/RPM. This is accomplished by using 2 TTS utilities (Datamaster & VTune). In a nutshell you set your AFR calibration table to 14.6. This will keep the ECM in closed loop. Now with the laptop connected to the ECM you ride the bike. The data from the O2 sensors is being stored. After 20 - 30 minutes of riding, DataMaster will have collected enough data to calculate a VE table correction over the operational load range. When you play the Datamaster file back on the PC you can see both the front and rear O2 sensors switching on and off.

If the VE numbers are way out of wack you will have all sorts of drivability issues.

This is just a VERY brief overview. You can download the TTS Tuning manual. It explains this in much greater detail.

http://www.mastertune.net/files/Tuni...Guide-v133.pdf

 

Yes, I was referring to the O2 activity buttons. I apologize to Ks6C for giving incorrect information.

Sorry - Live & Learn!

 

Actually the apology goes out to fabrik8r. Sorry for the misinformation!