Does ABS Replace Braking Skill?
Club Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,481
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From: Georgia
Last edited by BigGdawg; Oct 23, 2012 at 06:48 AM.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 934
Likes: 54
From: SE Wisconsin
This video proves something I have been saying for a long time about ABS.
It's not always a good thing, and could contribute to an accident on a motorcycle!
First off, if that scenario happened at an intersection where you needed to actually stop to survive, the "ABS assisted" bike Failed! That driver loses and never gets to tell the real story.
Secondly, the thought of ABS only actuating when you need it, or driver error, is not always true. A tiny crack in the road during threshold braking will set it off as well. In this case the result is the same, you lose again.
Not to say ABS is all bad, but it is certainly not all good either and could very much contribute to an accident. Just something to keep in mind.
It's not always a good thing, and could contribute to an accident on a motorcycle!
First off, if that scenario happened at an intersection where you needed to actually stop to survive, the "ABS assisted" bike Failed! That driver loses and never gets to tell the real story.
Secondly, the thought of ABS only actuating when you need it, or driver error, is not always true. A tiny crack in the road during threshold braking will set it off as well. In this case the result is the same, you lose again.
Not to say ABS is all bad, but it is certainly not all good either and could very much contribute to an accident. Just something to keep in mind.
Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 124
Likes: 1
From: Lexington, KY
Personally, I'm a fan of ABS. Never really had to use it, but its nice to know its there. In 1999 I purchased a new BMW K1200LT with ABS. I had never felt the ABS kick in, as I'm a cautious rider, and had not been in a situation for it to kick in. I asked the dealer when servicing the bike at 20K miles about how to know if ABS is working. He suggested I try it out in a fresh rain on a deserted street so I would know how it felt. So I did just that. At about 35 MPH, I slammed the rear brake, and Wala....nice pulsating but controlled stop on wet pavement! Then tried the same with slamming the front brake. Same situation. Ever since, I always am ordering ABS on my bikes if available (1999 & 2005 BMW K1200LT's, 2007 Honda GL1800, 2013 HD Road King)
My dealer had to locate my 2013 Road King with ABS, but I only wanted that bike, period. I've only felt the HD ABS kick in a little one time, when I was slowing down on a incline, and contacted some loose gravel. It is nice to know its there if you need it, as so many road surfaces are encountered, and emergency stops may come along.
My dealer had to locate my 2013 Road King with ABS, but I only wanted that bike, period. I've only felt the HD ABS kick in a little one time, when I was slowing down on a incline, and contacted some loose gravel. It is nice to know its there if you need it, as so many road surfaces are encountered, and emergency stops may come along.
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Tourer
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 306
Likes: 2
This video proves something I have been saying for a long time about ABS.
It's not always a good thing, and could contribute to an accident on a motorcycle!
First off, if that scenario happened at an intersection where you needed to actually stop to survive, the "ABS assisted" bike Failed! That driver loses and never gets to tell the real story.
Secondly, the thought of ABS only actuating when you need it, or driver error, is not always true. A tiny crack in the road during threshold braking will set it off as well. In this case the result is the same, you lose again.
Not to say ABS is all bad, but it is certainly not all good either and could very much contribute to an accident. Just something to keep in mind.
It's not always a good thing, and could contribute to an accident on a motorcycle!
First off, if that scenario happened at an intersection where you needed to actually stop to survive, the "ABS assisted" bike Failed! That driver loses and never gets to tell the real story.
Secondly, the thought of ABS only actuating when you need it, or driver error, is not always true. A tiny crack in the road during threshold braking will set it off as well. In this case the result is the same, you lose again.
Not to say ABS is all bad, but it is certainly not all good either and could very much contribute to an accident. Just something to keep in mind.
My video only "proves" what you're saying if your braking skills are top notch. The motor in full ABS stopped in 71 feet from 40 MPH. Before you discard, ABS go out to a safe spot, and see if you can do that. Most riders THINK they can, but the reality is they don't come close.
Bear in mind BOTH motors in the video are ABS equipped. I simply used proper braking technique, so the ABS did not activate.
Finally, you say "A tiny crack in the road during threshold braking will set it off as well."
First if the tiny crack (or any change in available friction) causes ABS activation, it would also cause a locked wheel on a non-ABS vehicle. So, no you don't "lose again" by having ABS, you win again, by avoiding a locked wheel skid.
Second, if a road change causes ABS activation (or a locked wheel), it is indeed a braking error on the part of the rider. The operator of the vehicle is required to be aware of all aspects required to avoid an accident. The particular skill we're talking about here is called "surface appraisal". If I apply the brakes in a manner that results in either a locked wheel skid, or ABS activation, the error is mine. This is true regardless of whether the specific reason is improper application of the brakes; proper application followed by too much use; or failure to properly appraise the stopping surface. The difference is that with ABS the error doesn't result in a skid. A locked wheel skid on a motorcycle is bad business, and takes far more time and distance to recover from than the braking distance added by ABS activation.
Harris
Denver, CO
www.youtube.com/conedown
Last edited by motorlessons; Oct 23, 2012 at 10:42 AM.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 934
Likes: 54
From: SE Wisconsin
The motors in the video are identical. BOTH are equipped with functioning ABS systems. It was not engaged on the near motor solely because the system sensed that it wasn't needed (no wheel lock-up was imminent). In other words merely having ABS, does not change anything about the motorcycle's mechanical ability to stop in a certain distance.
My video only "proves" what you're saying if your braking skills are top notch. The motor in full ABS stopped in 71 feet from 40 MPH. Before you discard, ABS go out to a safe spot, and see if you can do that. Most riders THINK they can, but the reality is they don't come close.
Bear in mind BOTH motors in the video are ABS equipped. I simply used proper braking technique, so the ABS did not activate.
Finally, you say "A tiny crack in the road during threshold braking will set it off as well."
First if the tiny crack (or any change in available friction) causes ABS activation, it would also cause a locked wheel on a non-ABS vehicle. So, no you don't "lose again" by having ABS, you win again, by avoiding a locked wheel skid.
Second, if a road change causes ABS activation (or a locked wheel), it is indeed a braking error on the part of the rider. The operator of the vehicle is required to be aware of all aspects required to avoid an accident. The particular skill we're talking about here is called "surface appraisal". If I apply the brakes in a manner that results in either a locked wheel skid, or ABS activation, the error is mine. This is true regardless of whether the specific reason is improper application of the brakes; proper application followed by too much use; or failure to properly appraise the stopping surface. The difference is that with ABS the error doesn't result in a skid. A locked wheel skid on a motorcycle is bad business, and takes far more time and distance to recover from than the braking distance added by ABS activation.
Harris
Denver, CO
www.youtube.com/conedown
My video only "proves" what you're saying if your braking skills are top notch. The motor in full ABS stopped in 71 feet from 40 MPH. Before you discard, ABS go out to a safe spot, and see if you can do that. Most riders THINK they can, but the reality is they don't come close.
Bear in mind BOTH motors in the video are ABS equipped. I simply used proper braking technique, so the ABS did not activate.
Finally, you say "A tiny crack in the road during threshold braking will set it off as well."
First if the tiny crack (or any change in available friction) causes ABS activation, it would also cause a locked wheel on a non-ABS vehicle. So, no you don't "lose again" by having ABS, you win again, by avoiding a locked wheel skid.
Second, if a road change causes ABS activation (or a locked wheel), it is indeed a braking error on the part of the rider. The operator of the vehicle is required to be aware of all aspects required to avoid an accident. The particular skill we're talking about here is called "surface appraisal". If I apply the brakes in a manner that results in either a locked wheel skid, or ABS activation, the error is mine. This is true regardless of whether the specific reason is improper application of the brakes; proper application followed by too much use; or failure to properly appraise the stopping surface. The difference is that with ABS the error doesn't result in a skid. A locked wheel skid on a motorcycle is bad business, and takes far more time and distance to recover from than the braking distance added by ABS activation.
Harris
Denver, CO
www.youtube.com/conedown
I think there is a danger of the "ABS for piece of mind line of thinking" that needs to addressed.
I could go into a long winded history of my personal experience on the matter, but I'll stick to evidence on the video.
The far bike had the ABS decide there should be an extra 23 feet of road to stop safely. Clearly the near bike did not need the extra distance. 23 feet is a difference that could mean your life!
So why did the ABS kick in?
He hit the brakes a little too hard? Okay, but was the extra 23 feet really necessary? It was not, the near bike clearly showed that.
The problem as I see it is when the ABS decides to kick in, normal braking takes too long to resume. Whether hitting the brakes a little hard, or hitting a tiny crack in the road when braking you will pay in distance for the ABS helping you out. 23 feet to be exact, as you showed.
The tiny crack in the road braking scenario that would otherwise add up to nothing more than a chirp, now becomes up to 23 feet, thanks to ABS. That's nothing to ignore.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 19
From: Cypress, TX
Good post. Thanks.
I have ABS and I'm glad I do. It's kicked in on me a couple of times. I would say that in either situation I was riding too fast for the situation or did not give myself enough room to brake. Either way I would have locked up the rear wheel and possible the front. I can ride my bike pretty hard and brake pretty well but there are always situations where you screw up. I'm 99% sure that I can't brake from 40 mph to stop in 71 ft so I'll keep it.
I have ABS and I'm glad I do. It's kicked in on me a couple of times. I would say that in either situation I was riding too fast for the situation or did not give myself enough room to brake. Either way I would have locked up the rear wheel and possible the front. I can ride my bike pretty hard and brake pretty well but there are always situations where you screw up. I'm 99% sure that I can't brake from 40 mph to stop in 71 ft so I'll keep it.
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