This is exactly the definition of "no economic growth".

And we need an expanding economy to create new jobs, because our population is still currently growing - sorry, but it really is that simple.

"More" is what really drives us as human beings. We want our kids to have it better than we did, we want a nicer house, new cures for medical issues, the latest iPhone (ok, not all of us <grin>) - we want a new Harley! It's part of our DNA and one of the fundamental principles this country was founded on.

If somebody said to us "don't aspire for more", they would be condemning us to mediocrity. Same goes for corporations - and if we were to throttle back US companies' ambitions, you can bet your last nickel that other countries would encourage their companies to step up and fill the void, grinding US companies into the dust.

It may sound cold to say, but Economics - like so many other things - is all about survival of the fittest. And we're well beyond being able to put walls around our country and protect US businesses from global competition.

 

Your kidding right?
Easy to be all sanctimonious on the computer, but when it comes down to actually laying out the money, I would bet most people will take the cheaper priced product, despite what they say.

Don't think that the US is the only one shafted by NAFTA.
I live in a city with a huge General Motors plant. Most of the extended cab and 4 door GMC and Chev pickups made for North America were manufactured here, winning awards for quality. That plant was shut down and moved to Mexico. Now the Camaros are made here.

 

I buy 'Fair Trade' products when offered, and I don't want my grandchildren to become beggars because it's already too late for the children, and my preferred destinations are not the cheapest ones.

 

Hi Dan, I live and work close to Geneva (where the web was born)

 

Good stuff all.

The very fact that we own HD's vs say Honda Rebels confirms that some of us here - for example - reject mediocrity, and aspire to bigger and better things in life. That said, the concept of "More" begs for another thread, with say 10,000 posts to contain the numerous definitions and perspectives around that slippery word."Want" often requires very distinct separation from "Need".

Sad to say though, that we as a nation seem to have lost the ability to "make things better" in the sense of Factory and Business efficiencys, beneficial Cost Containment, Optimal Utilization of Labor,Raw material Yield, and so on. Much easier to just put down the pencil, paper and calculator, and merely shift operations to a third world, ultra low labor cost Country.

Also not helping is the current trend of CEO's being paid Rock Star salaries. Not much makes me cringe more than a CEO pulling in $25 million / year, with a $10 million Bonus Packet, complaining that the Labor Force is "making too much". The difference between a $25 Million CEO and a $300K CEO is.... $24.7 Million in overhead.

Protective Tariffs and installing barricades to foreign trade? - A sure-fire recipe for complacency, laziness, poor quality and service. Competition - be it foriegn or domestic - is a must to constantly drive improvements and further growth.

The idea is/was Foriegn Trade "AGREEMENTS", of which most of our overseas partners have failed to hold up their end of the bargain, and we have tucked tail, and sheepishly allowed it to occur.

We desperately need a strong-willed set of non-partisan, non politically handcuffed Leaders to demand that the aforementioned welchers to pay up, or shut up.

Bob

 

I do like how this conversation is moving forward respectfully - thank you.
"Need" would still have us living in caves hunting for our daily meals with spears. "Want" is what drives us to invent, aspire, achieve - I'll take Want over Need as a motivator any day of the week.

I'm not sure I'd agree, especially since industrial improvement was my job <lol>

Seriously, though, as a Nation we have a 28% high school drop-out rate http://boostup.org/en/facts/statistics#national . Workplace absenteeism is estimated at 9% and growing, with less than a third of it for legitimate illnesses http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...mBc46U9687x0TQ

We have the most restrictive Regulatory environment in the world and the highest coporate taxes in the industrialized world - pulling money out of corporations that could otherwise be re-invested to create jobs.

OUR government even chases foreign investors away. Shell spent $4Billion on exploratory drilling on the North Slope, authorized by the previous administration - $4bio that was mostly spent creating US jobs and buying US material. New administration comes along and says "we won't honor the agreements and promises of the previous administration - stop drilling and leave". How anxious do you think the next potential foreign investor will be to create US jobs?

The smallest corporation in the Fortune 500 reported a grand total of $20million profit last year, and I'd be willing to bet that CEO wasn't taking home a rock star salary. Companies outside the 500 would be even less likely to be able to afford/pay that kind of money, but let's assume for the sake of argument that every one of the 500 CEO's is making that kind of money. In a country of 310 million people, statistically that's less than a **** in the ocean.

That's fewer people than we have in Congress, and I have a strong opinion about who is doing the most damage - it ain't the CEO's.

For me, this is all about the politicians in power inciting class warfare, demonizing business, and dividing the population to keep you from looking at what the politicians are doing.
Couldn't agree more!
We've tucked tail because they are financing our debt - if we rattled our swords, all they'd have to do is stop buying our T-bills. We will not regain our strength until we stop borrowing against our grandchildren's future.

I read recently (wish I could find that article again) that most recent Census Bureau data shows there are more people in California receiving a government check (gov't jobs, welfare, entitlements) than there are registered voters. California seems to have reached a tipping point - the State is technically bankrupt but voters continue to vote themselves more outlandish benefits.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/09...r-sex-changes/

For a more true picture of the US financial situation, I recommend reading sources outside the US - the Financial Times (paper) and The Economist (magazine) would be 2 good sources. I've seen analyses that show we will have to increase taxes by 1/3, reduce entitlements by 1/3, and maintain that financial discipline for ~30 years to right this ship. Not happening with the current crop of politicians - or voters, for that matter. Instead, we seem intent on sailing to a Greek debacle.

 

i am retired union constuction worker and i can tell you the big companys would not give you anything, they are already busting our *****.every contactor i 've ever worked for cries broke ,but they all live in big homes,kids in high dollar schools and driving new cars. unions bring up the standard of living for everyone not just the members.if it was not for the unions you would not be making any money the fat would be getting fatter.

 

Damn!!! Yall amaze me. You go out and buy an HD then complain about buying things made in China. Almost all of your bike is made in China. It is only assembled here in the US. Sorry to break the news to you but almost all the parts of your engine was made in China, your seat is made in China, your bling is made in China. The list goes on and on.

 

I actually thought of an example - bicycles. It's very hard to find a bike not made in China or Taiwan. The frame quality varies, but overall it's very good. A comparable frame made in the US will be many times more expensive. All of my bike frames are made in the US. Despite my example I will still not buy a Chinese bike.

To some of the others - make this as complicated as you want to explain/justify/rationalize/feel better about our current course. You can blame Republicans, Democrats, big business, or yourself. None of that changes the very basic math involved -

Buying imports exports jobs.


Less jobs is bad. Simple enough?

 

There's a special offer coming to visit Greece on an Italian ship