If you would work for HD
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 17,548
Likes: 7,172
From: Oxford, Nc
Why do you own a Harley then, if you are so unhappy?
Everything else everyone is suggesting only adds cost at very little benefit to Harley's actual customers who likely put WAY less than 5K miles/year on a bike. So these suggestions are essentially to make Harley less profitable.
Everything else everyone is suggesting only adds cost at very little benefit to Harley's actual customers who likely put WAY less than 5K miles/year on a bike. So these suggestions are essentially to make Harley less profitable.
) Actually anything after 2006 is a mechanical nightmare to me. ( It actually started in 2003 when the hot forged crank and the Timken Lefty bearing were eliminated.) My bike is well past 100,000 miles and is headed for twice that. I have some great destinations planned yet again for this Spring/Summer/Fall. My 2000 is a keeper.So my bike has that crank, along with no heat issues, no need for a S/E Comp and compression releases, a throttle that opens with a cable and wheel bearings that last over 100,000 miles without issue, is 70 lbs lighter and much quicker, etc etc. Therefor I'll rebuild as needed before ever buying new from Harley ever again.
To your point though...(It pains me that I can't argue.) If all you are ever going to do is ride down to the Dealership on a Saturday morning to meet the boys and ride another 22.5 miles out to a restaurant for lunch ( Ride to Eat!) then head home for your chores after that, you really don't need a bike as good as mine. So you are right there. And I stand corrected.
Might as well make them as cheap as possible, and they have!
Last edited by Stiggy; Jan 5, 2013 at 05:54 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,145
Likes: 6,166
From: SE Michigan
You make a good point, but first off let me emphasize that I love my Harley, ( I just hate yours) Actually anything after 2006 is a mechanical nightmare to me. ( It actually started in 2003 when the hot forged crank and the Timken Lefty bearing were eliminated.) My bike is well past 100,000 miles and is headed for twice that. I have some great destinations planned yet again for this Spring/Summer/Fall. My 2000 is a keeper.
So my bike has that crank, along with no heat issues, no need for a S/E Comp and compression releases, a throttle that opens with a cable and wheel bearings that last over 100,000 miles without issue, is 70 lbs lighter and much quicker, etc etc. Therefor I'll rebuild as needed before ever buying new from Harley ever again.
To your point though...(It pains me that I can't argue.) If all you are ever going to do is ride down to the Dealership on a Saturday morning to meet the boys and ride another 22.5 miles out to a restaurant for lunch ( Ride to Eat!) then head home for your chores after that, you really don't need a bike as good as mine. So you are right there. And I stand corrected.
Might as well make them as cheap as possible, and they have!
) Actually anything after 2006 is a mechanical nightmare to me. ( It actually started in 2003 when the hot forged crank and the Timken Lefty bearing were eliminated.) My bike is well past 100,000 miles and is headed for twice that. I have some great destinations planned yet again for this Spring/Summer/Fall. My 2000 is a keeper.So my bike has that crank, along with no heat issues, no need for a S/E Comp and compression releases, a throttle that opens with a cable and wheel bearings that last over 100,000 miles without issue, is 70 lbs lighter and much quicker, etc etc. Therefor I'll rebuild as needed before ever buying new from Harley ever again.
To your point though...(It pains me that I can't argue.) If all you are ever going to do is ride down to the Dealership on a Saturday morning to meet the boys and ride another 22.5 miles out to a restaurant for lunch ( Ride to Eat!) then head home for your chores after that, you really don't need a bike as good as mine. So you are right there. And I stand corrected.
Might as well make them as cheap as possible, and they have!
I wasnt trying to be a jerk or anything, but truly manufacturing at scale is very complex, and a small number multiplied by a large number is a very large number, but people dont have that perspective, understandably.
But I truly do believe that 98% (literally) of Harley owners put fewer than 5K a year on. Those are their customers and they build bikes for them.
For those of us that put 10-15K/year on a bike, well, we just have to spend some money to get them there.
Thread Starter
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,464
Likes: 4
From: On. Canada
Thanks for understanding.
I wasnt trying to be a jerk or anything, but truly manufacturing at scale is very complex, and a small number multiplied by a large number is a very large number, but people dont have that perspective, understandably.
But I truly do believe that 98% (literally) of Harley owners put fewer than 5K a year on. Those are their customers and they build bikes for them.
For those of us that put 10-15K/year on a bike, well, we just have to spend some money to get them there.
I wasnt trying to be a jerk or anything, but truly manufacturing at scale is very complex, and a small number multiplied by a large number is a very large number, but people dont have that perspective, understandably.
But I truly do believe that 98% (literally) of Harley owners put fewer than 5K a year on. Those are their customers and they build bikes for them.
For those of us that put 10-15K/year on a bike, well, we just have to spend some money to get them there.
Assuming you are correct, in HD's decision to cheapen down it's bike's for that reason, could eventually nipp HD in the butt .
I'm not concerned about HD's profit margin. They seem to do very well. If you compare a 20k to 30k car (more parts/labor and materials) to a 30k
bike (half of what a car is made of), it's easy to see that it pays well to manufacture bikes. I know..... the market dictates prices.
Last edited by Pete6114; Jan 5, 2013 at 08:29 AM.
Do you live in Germany or are you just stationed there? I am in Kuwait for a short while longer...
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 791
Likes: 2
From: Canada
Chief Davis,
I am stationed here in Geilenkirchen Germany, which is MOB for NATO AWACS, however spend some time deployed as you might imagine. We do have some FOLs we operate from and we operate out of Afghanistan. I am PCSing this coming summer 2013, and looking at eventual retirement , although the wife would like it to happen sooner rather than later, due to age and years service, LOL.
As for the comments on bikes, I think HD needs to pay attention or risk losing some market share and for sure losing post-bike sale , service and sales. A good example, I went to HD in Holland yesterday to see if a non HD accessory would mate-up to an HD bracket and was provided with a certain reply, then today visited a dealer in Belgium where the much older parts guy not only informed me of further missing details, but actually had the bracket in stock and took the components out back on his work bench in the shop and matched/bolted the parts up to show me it worked. Guess which one gets my business.
Chief, hope you get back safe & sound and get to ride !
I am stationed here in Geilenkirchen Germany, which is MOB for NATO AWACS, however spend some time deployed as you might imagine. We do have some FOLs we operate from and we operate out of Afghanistan. I am PCSing this coming summer 2013, and looking at eventual retirement , although the wife would like it to happen sooner rather than later, due to age and years service, LOL.
As for the comments on bikes, I think HD needs to pay attention or risk losing some market share and for sure losing post-bike sale , service and sales. A good example, I went to HD in Holland yesterday to see if a non HD accessory would mate-up to an HD bracket and was provided with a certain reply, then today visited a dealer in Belgium where the much older parts guy not only informed me of further missing details, but actually had the bracket in stock and took the components out back on his work bench in the shop and matched/bolted the parts up to show me it worked. Guess which one gets my business.
Chief, hope you get back safe & sound and get to ride !
Last edited by FXR_Hamster; Jan 5, 2013 at 10:28 AM. Reason: Missed a line
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,145
Likes: 6,166
From: SE Michigan
I dont know where you got the 98% figure from. I'm sure there are a bunch that have a harley, just to have one sitting in the garage, using it very little, and yes, some 5k or less a year, but 98% under 5k seems high to me.
Assuming you are correct, in HD's decision to cheapen down it's bike's for that reason, could eventually nipp HD in the butt .
I'm not concerned about HD's profit margin. They seem to do very well. If you compare a 20k to 30k car (more parts/labor and materials) to a 30k
bike (half of what a car is made of), it's easy to see that it pays well to manufacture bikes. I know..... the market dictates prices.
Assuming you are correct, in HD's decision to cheapen down it's bike's for that reason, could eventually nipp HD in the butt .
I'm not concerned about HD's profit margin. They seem to do very well. If you compare a 20k to 30k car (more parts/labor and materials) to a 30k
bike (half of what a car is made of), it's easy to see that it pays well to manufacture bikes. I know..... the market dictates prices.
RE: cost v car, its about scale. Dont forget that auto companies each build *millions* of cars. HD will ship about 260K bikes this year, and thats a huge difference - also there is a very seasonal nature to HD's business that car companies dont really experience.
You too, enjoy your retirement both of you. Nice bike. Holland, Belgium? You sure get around. I never could comprehend how businesses can treat customers like they don't care if they come back. Such arrogance only degrades the customer base, the very thing that keeps their doors open. Take care.
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 239
Likes: 7
From: KCK
An Assistant
I'm sure we all can agree there are things that can be done to improve H.D. and their product line(s) all around. Some are simplistic while other are more complex.
But if I would work for H.D. I would want her for an assistant. Course I know that would never happen...wishful thinking is all.
But if I would work for H.D. I would want her for an assistant. Course I know that would never happen...wishful thinking is all.
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Thread Starter
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,464
Likes: 4
From: On. Canada
I'm sure we all can agree there are things that can be done to improve H.D. and their product line(s) all around. Some are simplistic while other are more complex.
But if I would work for H.D. I would want her for an assistant. Course I know that would never happen...wishful thinking is all.
But if I would work for H.D. I would want her for an assistant. Course I know that would never happen...wishful thinking is all.
. . . 