Stoplights - Neutral or Clutch?
Road Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 920
Likes: 4
From: Western Wa.
I may not be as talented at riding as some, but I will keep my bike in gear and be ready to move. I too have been riding 40 years but would never(lay it down) on purpose. Its funny how some people believe their way is the only way?
Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: Daytona Beach
I don't care how much "talent" you have, in some cases the better course of action is to "lay it down" Don't care if you're Valantino Rossi, Nicky Hayden, or Casey Stoner, no amount of skill will keep you from being run over in some situations unless you lay it down. To say otherwise is ignorant. Anybody that rides with the mentality that they have the skills to avoid everything is kidding them selfs and are a danger to others.
Not trying to get in a pissing match here, but I know some buddies who have this attitude, and I always make sure they are riding in front of me so when the **** goes down, I won't be collateral damage.
Not trying to get in a pissing match here, but I know some buddies who have this attitude, and I always make sure they are riding in front of me so when the **** goes down, I won't be collateral damage.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,341
Likes: 0
From: Dover, Oh
I don't care how much "talent" you have, in some cases the better course of action is to "lay it down" Don't care if you're Valantino Rossi, Nicky Hayden, or Casey Stoner, no amount of skill will keep you from being run over in some situations unless you lay it down. To say otherwise is ignorant. Anybody that rides with the mentality that they have the skills to avoid everything is kidding them selfs and are a danger to others.
Not trying to get in a pissing match here, but I know some buddies who have this attitude, and I always make sure they are riding in front of me so when the **** goes down, I won't be collateral damage.
Not trying to get in a pissing match here, but I know some buddies who have this attitude, and I always make sure they are riding in front of me so when the **** goes down, I won't be collateral damage.
You ran out of talent. Under braked on the front wheel and Orr braked on the rear wheel. Unless you were about to go off a cliff or a 50 car pile up in a tunnel, your not "laying" your bike down. You gain momentum and speed once your sliding... Also you have no control. Sounds like ignorance to me!
Last edited by vegashd; May 5, 2013 at 05:05 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,046
Likes: 68
From: florida
Try not to lock yourself into a pinch point. Bike, car or most anything in life always leave yourself an out.Now to leave the safety issue of neutral or not ,I was told by a fellow rider that engine will stay cooler with clutch engaged vs netural. Sounds like BS but came from mother HD.
Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: Daytona Beach
You are not "laying it down" EVER! This is not a conscious decision you are making! I will guarantee it.
You ran out of talent. Under braked on the front wheel and Orr braked on the rear wheel. Unless you were about to go off a cliff or a 50 car pile up in a tunnel, your not "laying" your bike down. You gain momentum and speed once your sliding... Also you have no control. Sounds like ignorance to me!
You ran out of talent. Under braked on the front wheel and Orr braked on the rear wheel. Unless you were about to go off a cliff or a 50 car pile up in a tunnel, your not "laying" your bike down. You gain momentum and speed once your sliding... Also you have no control. Sounds like ignorance to me!
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,456
Likes: 2,860
From: SW FL-Jersey Shore Emigre
There is only one right answer to this issue. The motor needs to be in first, with the rider set up for a proper escape.
I've seen a few posts to this thread questioning the possibility of making an escape. That bespeaks a glaring shortfall in training.
At a stop, whether you're behind another vehicle, or first in line, it's critical to angle your motorcycle. The idea is not to go in line with traffic to make your escape. It's to clear the encroaching vehicle's path of travel, by moving to either the left or right.
This can only be accomplished by considering the situation as it is developing at each stop. Your best escape route will vary based upon the road's design, and the way other vehicles are positioned. For example, I tend to usually set myself up for an escape to the left. This means I stop angled to the left, and far enough back so that - from that angle - I will not have to steer to get past the the corner of the vehicle in front of me (usually about 12 to 15 feet back. By taking this position, if I see a vehicle approaching that isn't going to stop, I don't need to outrun the vehicle, I need only move forward, and to the left out of its path. If it strikes the vehicle that was ahead of me, so be it.
Of course, things like barriers, vehicles to my left, or the on-coming lane on narrow roads, may make an escape route to the left undesirable or impossible. Then, the set-up is reversed, so the escape is to the right. I cover this in more detail in my booklet Motor Lessons. It's always free. If you'd like it, please e-mail me at:
motorlessons@hotmail.com
Anyone who doubts this level of concern is necessary at every stop is forgoing a chance at protecting themselves. Riding a motorcycle means you're on a vehicle that is not as visible, and offers less protection in the event off a collision, than a car. However, it is also has more maneuverability, and generally better acceleration and braking than a car. Unfortunately, those riders who do not take the time to obtain proper training, and then practice their skills, accept all of the negatives, but gain none of the positives.
Harris
Denver, CO
www.youtube.com/conedown
I've seen a few posts to this thread questioning the possibility of making an escape. That bespeaks a glaring shortfall in training.
At a stop, whether you're behind another vehicle, or first in line, it's critical to angle your motorcycle. The idea is not to go in line with traffic to make your escape. It's to clear the encroaching vehicle's path of travel, by moving to either the left or right.
This can only be accomplished by considering the situation as it is developing at each stop. Your best escape route will vary based upon the road's design, and the way other vehicles are positioned. For example, I tend to usually set myself up for an escape to the left. This means I stop angled to the left, and far enough back so that - from that angle - I will not have to steer to get past the the corner of the vehicle in front of me (usually about 12 to 15 feet back. By taking this position, if I see a vehicle approaching that isn't going to stop, I don't need to outrun the vehicle, I need only move forward, and to the left out of its path. If it strikes the vehicle that was ahead of me, so be it.
Of course, things like barriers, vehicles to my left, or the on-coming lane on narrow roads, may make an escape route to the left undesirable or impossible. Then, the set-up is reversed, so the escape is to the right. I cover this in more detail in my booklet Motor Lessons. It's always free. If you'd like it, please e-mail me at:
motorlessons@hotmail.com
Anyone who doubts this level of concern is necessary at every stop is forgoing a chance at protecting themselves. Riding a motorcycle means you're on a vehicle that is not as visible, and offers less protection in the event off a collision, than a car. However, it is also has more maneuverability, and generally better acceleration and braking than a car. Unfortunately, those riders who do not take the time to obtain proper training, and then practice their skills, accept all of the negatives, but gain none of the positives.
Harris
Denver, CO
www.youtube.com/conedown
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Banned
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,341
Likes: 0
From: Dover, Oh
The fact that you state "you gain momentum and speed once your sliding..." tells it all. You're lacking in the fundamentals of basic physics. That statement is in direct contradiction to Newton's third law, which is a proven theory. Sorry to say this, but you're obviously clueless.
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: Bakersfield, CA
[quote=danzio;11242704]I don't know about this being taught in my MSF class and if it was I wasn’t paying attention or it was too long ago and I just forgot, I guess, but if you say it is I certainly don't dispute that. However all this talk about being in a position of "escape" just doesn't make sense to me. I'm just sayin' that to me, to be sitting at a stop light, so fixated on my mirrors in anticipation of some jackwad coming at me from the rear, so that I can pop the clutch just a second or two before impact and launch myself into an intersection where there may be several other vehicles passing thru said intersection, perpendicular to my direction at speeds likely well beyond the speed said jackwad is travelling and those other vehicles "t-boning" me as I illegally enter said intersection and likely doing far more damage to me than the jackwad who might rear-end me, just sayin', to me doesn't make sense.
Furthermore, the day that I have to keep my eyes on my mirrors while idling, apprehensive that some jackwad may come barreling up my rear, that's probably the day I hang up my spurs. I wish to be enjoying my time on my bike and although that doesn't mean not paying attention, I do constantly when I ride and I feel even more so as I get older because I realize that my reflexes aren't what they were years ago. But I may sit at the stoplight with the bike in neutral and my hands folded across my chest, both feet flat on the ground. Or I may have the bike in gear, foot on brake. In gear with hand on brake right foot on highway peg, left foot on ground. There may be a few more combinations I get into without really thinking about it, but I don’t ever, ever spend the entire time at a stoplight looking into my mirrors, anticipating the jackwad. Not even with one eye.
Nobody I’ve ever heard talk on the subject of being struck from behind ever even knew it was about to happen. They realized they’d been rear-ended after they got up off the ground. Now you may say that if they had their eyes glued to their mirrors they may have seen it coming, maybe you’re right, and maybe if they did and they “escaped” into the busy intersection and got “t-boned” by one of those vehicles travelling at a high rate of speed, legally thru the intersection and completely took them out, you probably would’ve wondered why the guy ran the red light and put himself in a position of vulnerability at all, but he may never be able to tell you he thought there was a jackwad about to slam into his *** so he was escaping.
Come to think of it, I don’t believe I ever took a MSF class. When I first learned how to ride a bike it was in ’64, out in the California desert. Then when I became of licensing age I just went down to DMV and took the test. Passed it and have been riding ever since. Lots of ways to get hurt riding a motorcycle, the guy plowing into me from behind is certainly one of them. Just not the one I’m concerned about most.
Just my opinion, and like yours, I know everybody's entitled to one.
[I was sitting behind a car one day, looking in my rear veiw mirror when I noticed the car behind my locked up his brakes, I goosed and was able to swerve around the car in front of me. I pulled off down the road a mile or tow up to get some fuel, when the guy who almost rear ended me and said, thank god you were watching behind you. I will say I had a lot of luck, but it does pay to watch your back side.]
Furthermore, the day that I have to keep my eyes on my mirrors while idling, apprehensive that some jackwad may come barreling up my rear, that's probably the day I hang up my spurs. I wish to be enjoying my time on my bike and although that doesn't mean not paying attention, I do constantly when I ride and I feel even more so as I get older because I realize that my reflexes aren't what they were years ago. But I may sit at the stoplight with the bike in neutral and my hands folded across my chest, both feet flat on the ground. Or I may have the bike in gear, foot on brake. In gear with hand on brake right foot on highway peg, left foot on ground. There may be a few more combinations I get into without really thinking about it, but I don’t ever, ever spend the entire time at a stoplight looking into my mirrors, anticipating the jackwad. Not even with one eye.
Nobody I’ve ever heard talk on the subject of being struck from behind ever even knew it was about to happen. They realized they’d been rear-ended after they got up off the ground. Now you may say that if they had their eyes glued to their mirrors they may have seen it coming, maybe you’re right, and maybe if they did and they “escaped” into the busy intersection and got “t-boned” by one of those vehicles travelling at a high rate of speed, legally thru the intersection and completely took them out, you probably would’ve wondered why the guy ran the red light and put himself in a position of vulnerability at all, but he may never be able to tell you he thought there was a jackwad about to slam into his *** so he was escaping.
Come to think of it, I don’t believe I ever took a MSF class. When I first learned how to ride a bike it was in ’64, out in the California desert. Then when I became of licensing age I just went down to DMV and took the test. Passed it and have been riding ever since. Lots of ways to get hurt riding a motorcycle, the guy plowing into me from behind is certainly one of them. Just not the one I’m concerned about most.
Just my opinion, and like yours, I know everybody's entitled to one.
[I was sitting behind a car one day, looking in my rear veiw mirror when I noticed the car behind my locked up his brakes, I goosed and was able to swerve around the car in front of me. I pulled off down the road a mile or tow up to get some fuel, when the guy who almost rear ended me and said, thank god you were watching behind you. I will say I had a lot of luck, but it does pay to watch your back side.]
Last edited by gjetson; May 5, 2013 at 07:25 PM. Reason: wrong person