Suspension experts-- Why can't there be a quality air-ride shock?
My question is, why can't a quality shock manufacturer take one of their shock bodies (like a JRI B with adustable sweep valve) and add an air spring? That's all Arnott did with the Bilstein.
In my opinion, it would be the ultimate solution. A quality shock with quality adjustable valving, plus the ability to accommodate huge swings in load.
It would be awesome to have a softly sprung/dampened bike when you want it, and a stiffly sprung/dampened bike when you need it. In my opinion that can be accomplished with a quality shock body and air spring.
So, after a long preamble, is there a technical reason why air is a bad spring?
Here is a :30 Video which shows the Aldan Kit on a V-Rod:
Thread Starter
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 25
From: NorCal
Have you looked at the Arnott Aldan Shocks? http://www.arnottairsuspension.com/ They provide nearly 3" of travel and a 11-way adjustable **** for controlling the internal shock's damping. R
Here is a :30 Video which shows the Aldan Kit on a V-Rod: http://youtu.be/uDgtI7yQEPM
Here is a :30 Video which shows the Aldan Kit on a V-Rod: http://youtu.be/uDgtI7yQEPM
I have researched Aldan shocks, yet I still do not know if it's a comfortable ride. The person I spoke with at Arnott (can't remember the name) said that the Aldan system adjustment range is from slightly softer than the Bilstein to super stiff. In fact, I was told in practice I would probably only use 3-4 clicks on the adjuster, anything else was too stiff.
Please let us know more about the specifics of your valving, I'm all ears!
JCleary
I did live in California for 55 years, and I know the roads are not the best in the west.
I drove an 18 wheeler over them for 30 plus years, and 35 years on a Motorcycles also.
My late Father once said that BMW builds the best bikes in the world bar none, I think
he was right, they have adjustable suspension from the riders seat for Pete sakes.
We buy what we buy, and ride what we ride by choice. What is comfortable for me
may not suite a lot of people, and I don't ride those Bikes that I did at 16 either.
A comfortable ride is a subjective thing, most all the roads in the USA are not at there best
any more.
I did live in California for 55 years, and I know the roads are not the best in the west.
I drove an 18 wheeler over them for 30 plus years, and 35 years on a Motorcycles also.
My late Father once said that BMW builds the best bikes in the world bar none, I think
he was right, they have adjustable suspension from the riders seat for Pete sakes.
We buy what we buy, and ride what we ride by choice. What is comfortable for me
may not suite a lot of people, and I don't ride those Bikes that I did at 16 either.
A comfortable ride is a subjective thing, most all the roads in the USA are not at there best
any more.
Thread Starter
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 25
From: NorCal
Was at Oakland HD today. Some dude was looking at a '14 with the "new" Legends air ride. I had no idea, but they offer a brand new system called the Aero and Aero A for adjustable. It has what I'm looking for, adjustable rebound, and claim to have good dampening. Only $1,850 LOL...
From their website:
All new Legend AERO Suspensions Systems sets the high mark in ultimate ride quality
New redesigned exclusive Kevlar air spring technology provides spring rate adjustability
Air springs maximize wheel travel and adjust to any desired ride height
Fitment accommodates 13" and 12" needs
Spherical mount bearings top and bottom
Hard anodized machined aluminum bodies
Legend's low-friction seals eliminate stiction
High flow piston reacts quickly for improved fluid flow management
Deflective disc valved damping self adjust to frequency and ensures controlled performance
Air compressor included, pre-wired, and model specific mounting
New Namz/Legend complete wire harness installed with 3 easy Deutsch connections
System includes OEM looking black handlebar mounted control for easy "on-the-go" adjustability
Optional chrome handlebar mounted control sold separately (Part # 0616-0207)
Six external **** adjustments allow fine-tuning of rebound
Provides optimum rebound performance for any given rider weight, personal ride quality preference, ore personal riding style
Light to heavy riders can fine-tune ride preference
Aggressive to casual riding styles can tune to desired quality or personal preference
Lifetime Warranty
Made by hand in Sturgis, South Dakota, USA
From their website:
All new Legend AERO Suspensions Systems sets the high mark in ultimate ride quality
New redesigned exclusive Kevlar air spring technology provides spring rate adjustability
Air springs maximize wheel travel and adjust to any desired ride height
Fitment accommodates 13" and 12" needs
Spherical mount bearings top and bottom
Hard anodized machined aluminum bodies
Legend's low-friction seals eliminate stiction
High flow piston reacts quickly for improved fluid flow management
Deflective disc valved damping self adjust to frequency and ensures controlled performance
Air compressor included, pre-wired, and model specific mounting
New Namz/Legend complete wire harness installed with 3 easy Deutsch connections
System includes OEM looking black handlebar mounted control for easy "on-the-go" adjustability
Optional chrome handlebar mounted control sold separately (Part # 0616-0207)
Six external **** adjustments allow fine-tuning of rebound
Provides optimum rebound performance for any given rider weight, personal ride quality preference, ore personal riding style
Light to heavy riders can fine-tune ride preference
Aggressive to casual riding styles can tune to desired quality or personal preference
Lifetime Warranty
Made by hand in Sturgis, South Dakota, USA
Last edited by JCleary; Mar 28, 2014 at 11:33 PM.
Thread Starter
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 25
From: NorCal
Indeed. I can't figure out why, when Harley came out with the new frame, they did not plan for better suspension.
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 1
From: USA
[QUOTE=JCleary;12506892]Was at Oakland HD today. Some dude was looking at a '14 with the "new" Legends air ride. I had no idea, but they offer a brand new system called the Aero and Aero A for adjustable. It has what I'm looking for, adjustable rebound, and claim to have good dampening. Only $1,850 LOL...
From their website:
All new Legend AERO Suspensions Systems sets the high mark in ultimate ride quality
New redesigned exclusive Kevlar air spring technology provides spring rate adjustability
Air springs maximize wheel travel and adjust to any desired ride height
Fitment accommodates 13" and 12" needs
Spherical mount bearings top and bottom
Hard anodized machined aluminum bodies
Legend's low-friction seals eliminate stiction
High flow piston reacts quickly for improved fluid flow management
Deflective disc valved damping self adjust to frequency and ensures controlled performance
Air compressor included, pre-wired, and model specific mounting
New Namz/Legend complete wire harness installed with 3 easy Deutsch connections
System includes OEM looking black handlebar mounted control for easy "on-the-go" adjustability
Optional chrome handlebar mounted control sold separately (Part # 0616-0207)
Six external **** adjustments allow fine-tuning of rebound
Provides optimum rebound performance for any given rider weight, personal ride quality preference, ore personal riding style
Light to heavy riders can fine-tune ride preference
Aggressive to casual riding styles can tune to desired quality or personal preference
Lifetime Warranty
Made by hand in Sturgis, South Dakota, U
My buddy just put this on his SG last week. Rode from Dallas to Galveston with wife who has metal in her lower back, she said it was awesome! He rode all the rest of the week just 1 up and he says its still awesome, with a slight easy adjustment.
He's gonna trade bikes with me for a day, and although this is VERY expensive if it works for me it'll be all worth it for me. I need a great smooth ride that I can lower when I stop and back up bike.
From their website:
All new Legend AERO Suspensions Systems sets the high mark in ultimate ride quality
New redesigned exclusive Kevlar air spring technology provides spring rate adjustability
Air springs maximize wheel travel and adjust to any desired ride height
Fitment accommodates 13" and 12" needs
Spherical mount bearings top and bottom
Hard anodized machined aluminum bodies
Legend's low-friction seals eliminate stiction
High flow piston reacts quickly for improved fluid flow management
Deflective disc valved damping self adjust to frequency and ensures controlled performance
Air compressor included, pre-wired, and model specific mounting
New Namz/Legend complete wire harness installed with 3 easy Deutsch connections
System includes OEM looking black handlebar mounted control for easy "on-the-go" adjustability
Optional chrome handlebar mounted control sold separately (Part # 0616-0207)
Six external **** adjustments allow fine-tuning of rebound
Provides optimum rebound performance for any given rider weight, personal ride quality preference, ore personal riding style
Light to heavy riders can fine-tune ride preference
Aggressive to casual riding styles can tune to desired quality or personal preference
Lifetime Warranty
Made by hand in Sturgis, South Dakota, U
My buddy just put this on his SG last week. Rode from Dallas to Galveston with wife who has metal in her lower back, she said it was awesome! He rode all the rest of the week just 1 up and he says its still awesome, with a slight easy adjustment.
He's gonna trade bikes with me for a day, and although this is VERY expensive if it works for me it'll be all worth it for me. I need a great smooth ride that I can lower when I stop and back up bike.
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,897
From: Bedford UK
All shocks perform just two functions: one is performed by the spring, which is to hold the vehicle and load (us riders) up where we belong; the other is to dampen the bumps and thumps we encounter while riding. The fact that some brands use air as the spring is a distraction.
Ride quality, assuming the spring is correct, is entirely down to the design of the internal damping mechanism, which you allude to. If you have been unable to find a set of air shocks that give a decent ride, we must assume none of the brands you've tried has invested enough effort and ingenuity in their dampers.
That remark can be made of most of the conventional shock manufacturers as well. Few of them provide high quality damping and you mentioned the noteworthy ones in your opening post. I would also observe that when riding solo it is easy to find a decent ride and many shocks will be fine, however the test comes when carrying the most important passenger in the World. Quality shocks really shine through and the mediocre ones fall by the wayside.
I understand the attraction of air shocks and have tried another brand myself, however came to recognise that there are conventional shocks, for the discerning, that render air shocks unnecessary. They are available now, while comparable air shocks aren't!
Ride quality, assuming the spring is correct, is entirely down to the design of the internal damping mechanism, which you allude to. If you have been unable to find a set of air shocks that give a decent ride, we must assume none of the brands you've tried has invested enough effort and ingenuity in their dampers.
That remark can be made of most of the conventional shock manufacturers as well. Few of them provide high quality damping and you mentioned the noteworthy ones in your opening post. I would also observe that when riding solo it is easy to find a decent ride and many shocks will be fine, however the test comes when carrying the most important passenger in the World. Quality shocks really shine through and the mediocre ones fall by the wayside.
I understand the attraction of air shocks and have tried another brand myself, however came to recognise that there are conventional shocks, for the discerning, that render air shocks unnecessary. They are available now, while comparable air shocks aren't!
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Was at Oakland HD today. Some dude was looking at a '14 with the "new" Legends air ride. I had no idea, but they offer a brand new system called the Aero and Aero A for adjustable. It has what I'm looking for, adjustable rebound, and claim to have good dampening. Only $1,850 LOL...
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,897
From: Bedford UK
Direct Cycle Parts has them for $1,650. Two hundred discount isn't much, but it is something. I'm going to try 15 wt. oil in the stock shocks, have read it helps, but it still isn't what you're looking for. I have JRI's right now and they were great with a tour pak loaded, the wife, and me on the bike. I think they are stiff when riding single and I weigh in at 240. I will try to set the sag one more time before I write them off though. They have Howards red springs on them and I wonder if there is a better choice there. More research needed.