Stage 1 tune vs xied
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
Thundermax? It's f*cking garbage. No warranty of course, no knock sensor, and it's got 1/100th of the funding that the original Delphi ECM has.
MODERATOR
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,108
Likes: 1,964
From: New England
FWIW, most of those little "fool me" devices "adjust" only the air/fuel ratio by adding fuel. What they won't say (and they don't really want you to ask) is that adjusting the AFR is about the last thing that's done when tuning.
Without properly setting the VE's, everything else is simply a crap shoot. Think about it...why in the world would you want to add fuel in a cell that's getting too much fuel already? And what about cells that need more then the 5% or 10% those little devices provide.
And how do those little devices adjust timing? The short answer...they don't!
There's a reason so many of those little magical devices are showing up in the used parts sections of various forums and flyers.
So, do they really work? Why certainly!! At least their attorney's say they do and that's good enough for me!!!
MODERATOR
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,108
Likes: 1,964
From: New England
OK, I'll put you down as a possible maybe...
Tourer
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 303
Likes: 16
From: Stockton, CA
Ok. Some more 411
Adjusting VE will work for a while but ultimately the adaptive learning of the ECM will take over and tune to the AF ratio that whatever programmer set at.
A dyno tune is a great option and will get the most out of the parts you install but is expensive. Often 2-300 plus cost of a tuner
Putting on slip on pipes and AC AND the HD download or stage 1 program from the SE street tuner PLUS installing IED's will get you very close for about 3-350 total.
All in all it is a cost vs benefit option to YOU.
Adjusting VE will work for a while but ultimately the adaptive learning of the ECM will take over and tune to the AF ratio that whatever programmer set at.
A dyno tune is a great option and will get the most out of the parts you install but is expensive. Often 2-300 plus cost of a tuner
Putting on slip on pipes and AC AND the HD download or stage 1 program from the SE street tuner PLUS installing IED's will get you very close for about 3-350 total.
All in all it is a cost vs benefit option to YOU.
Ok folks,
After reading and searching, I haven't seen a definitive answer so here it goes.
The facts as I read them are:
1. Our bikes run a little lean out of the gate.
2. If you add an A/C and pipes (slip on or full) without a tune, it will run even leaner, possibly enough to damage the motor.
Now this is where I get a little fuzzy.
Can I get a 'stage 1' download without an A/C to get the bike richer without hurting it?
The best thing for performance would be to get 'x' brand tuner and take it to a dyno and have a custom map created for the bike.
The other option is to get a 'stage 1' download from the dealer and that will richen it up a bit to compensate for the A/C and pipes. The othe option/or in addition to the download is to get a (X)IED to fool the bike into running richer. Not as good as a custom tune, but better than running lean.
Am I understanding this correctly? Thanks!
After reading and searching, I haven't seen a definitive answer so here it goes.
The facts as I read them are:
1. Our bikes run a little lean out of the gate.
2. If you add an A/C and pipes (slip on or full) without a tune, it will run even leaner, possibly enough to damage the motor.
Now this is where I get a little fuzzy.
Can I get a 'stage 1' download without an A/C to get the bike richer without hurting it?
The best thing for performance would be to get 'x' brand tuner and take it to a dyno and have a custom map created for the bike.
The other option is to get a 'stage 1' download from the dealer and that will richen it up a bit to compensate for the A/C and pipes. The othe option/or in addition to the download is to get a (X)IED to fool the bike into running richer. Not as good as a custom tune, but better than running lean.
Am I understanding this correctly? Thanks!
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/ignit...uning-etc.html
__________________
DKCustomProducts.com
DKCustomProducts.com
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 150
Likes: 10
From: Myrtle Beach, SC
I have a Stage 1 tune and the FL-Vied-10 at 37.5%. Bike runs great and gas mileage is around 40 around town. (not hammering it)
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,248
Likes: 7
From: Atlanta, Georgia
That's about as thinned out as it gets.
FWIW, most of those little "fool me" devices "adjust" only the air/fuel ratio by adding fuel. What they won't say (and they don't really want you to ask) is that adjusting the AFR is about the last thing that's done when tuning.
Without properly setting the VE's, everything else is simply a crap shoot. Think about it...why in the world would you want to add fuel in a cell that's getting too much fuel already? And what about cells that need more then the 5% or 10% those little devices provide.
And how do those little devices adjust timing? The short answer...they don't!
There's a reason so many of those little magical devices are showing up in the used parts sections of various forums and flyers.
So, do they really work? Why certainly!! At least their attorney's say they do and that's good enough for me!!!
FWIW, most of those little "fool me" devices "adjust" only the air/fuel ratio by adding fuel. What they won't say (and they don't really want you to ask) is that adjusting the AFR is about the last thing that's done when tuning.
Without properly setting the VE's, everything else is simply a crap shoot. Think about it...why in the world would you want to add fuel in a cell that's getting too much fuel already? And what about cells that need more then the 5% or 10% those little devices provide.
And how do those little devices adjust timing? The short answer...they don't!
There's a reason so many of those little magical devices are showing up in the used parts sections of various forums and flyers.
So, do they really work? Why certainly!! At least their attorney's say they do and that's good enough for me!!!
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,023
Likes: 6
From: New Jersey
I'll tell you what worked for me and why
I use xieds- I have a 2009 96" FLHTC.
when stock this bike pinged between 2800~3200 rpms up 6% grades*- this was repeatable and fuel type/octane was ruled out as a factor.
so I put on xieds and this solved that completely- the xieds for my model are fixed value and enrichen the mixture about 8% under most riding conditions- fully warmed motor, part throttle.
then I swapped to hi flow muffler ( no cat on the 09)- tuned supertrapps for a few thousand miles to good result.
then I installed a ness big sucker.
10,000 miles later i have a stage 1 for under $400 and it works great. my mpg went from 44 to 43 MPG for my typical riding style ( 70-ish on 2 lane highways)
I have no need to alter the rev limiter- I have other bikes that go fast- the bagger is a...bagger
I have no plans to use a cam or do motor work - if I had I would have looked at another device.
xieds work for me.
I use xieds- I have a 2009 96" FLHTC.
when stock this bike pinged between 2800~3200 rpms up 6% grades*- this was repeatable and fuel type/octane was ruled out as a factor.
so I put on xieds and this solved that completely- the xieds for my model are fixed value and enrichen the mixture about 8% under most riding conditions- fully warmed motor, part throttle.
then I swapped to hi flow muffler ( no cat on the 09)- tuned supertrapps for a few thousand miles to good result.
then I installed a ness big sucker.
10,000 miles later i have a stage 1 for under $400 and it works great. my mpg went from 44 to 43 MPG for my typical riding style ( 70-ish on 2 lane highways)
I have no need to alter the rev limiter- I have other bikes that go fast- the bagger is a...bagger
I have no plans to use a cam or do motor work - if I had I would have looked at another device.
xieds work for me.
To the OP: This makes good sense. If you plan on stopping at a Stage 1 upgrade, then XiEDs are a reasonable and practical solution.
I did my own stage 1 upgrade in April/2012 (Fuel Moto Jackpot mufflers and stage 1 air kit + Nightrider FL-XiED-10 kit), on my 2011 Street Glide.
The bike runs great, without sacrificing performance OR economy.
