pipes and o2 sensors
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Intermediate
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 28
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From: Belfry, KY
pipes and o2 sensors
alright here itgoes. no bs. i tried searching already no definate answer.
i have a '07 Fat Boy i want to put V&H big shot shortys ( no o2 ports )they came off an '05 model, they are like brand new. i've read on here that it WILL work. ok so far. can i still use a SERT or similar product? how will not having the sensors hooked up affect the bike? i know the PC 111 has the eliminators, but looks like there have been a lot of problems.
i have a '07 Fat Boy i want to put V&H big shot shortys ( no o2 ports )they came off an '05 model, they are like brand new. i've read on here that it WILL work. ok so far. can i still use a SERT or similar product? how will not having the sensors hooked up affect the bike? i know the PC 111 has the eliminators, but looks like there have been a lot of problems.
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Joined: Apr 2006
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RE: pipes and o2 sensors
Not with a SERT..... Prolly not with a Fuel Pak, not sure though......
Believe me, you DO NOT want to take the o2's out of the EFI equation.....
You will throw a CEL all the time, as the ECM will be looking for the signal....
Believe me, you DO NOT want to take the o2's out of the EFI equation.....
You will throw a CEL all the time, as the ECM will be looking for the signal....
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Joined: Jul 2006
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From:
RE: pipes and o2 sensors
THe CEL will come on after a minute at 50 kpa - this would be a road speed. The CEL will not pop if you simply disconnect them and idle it. Using O2 eliminators defeats the great value of the O2 feedback system - I would greatly advise against it.
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Joined: May 2007
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From: Florida
RE: pipes and o2 sensors
Biggy you can use the V&H pipes with no problem. I do agree with the suggestion of not getting rid of the O2 sensor, they help in fuel dilivery. With the 07 line we have a Adpative Fuel Values which lets the ECM learn in the 30 to 70 kpa area while your cruising...it actually changes the VE to get the requested fuel from the Fuel table.
You can buy the bung adapters and install them on your new pipes then the O2 can be used....if you install the Bungs make sure you get thm in a good location so they won't fill up with junk from the engine exhaust, look at the factory location for a template.
If you don't run the O2 sensor the bike will still perform fine....you will be running off the VE settings totally for the AFR. You will and must go into theFuel table and change all the AFR that is set at 14.6 to 14.4 to 13.8 depending on your compression and build.The 14.6 is the switch that turns on the sensors...ie. if the ECM doesn't see 14.6 in the Fuel Table the sensors aren't working anyway, the ECM is not looking for thevoltage reading (bias voltage) the O2 puts out.Some people see this 14.6 and say thats way too lean so they change it to another setting which in turn shuts off the O2 sensors with out knowing it and the bike still runs, so there you have it. Bottom line is, it's MUCH betterto runthe O2 sensors because of the job they perform, but it's not going to hurt not to run them.
You can buy the bung adapters and install them on your new pipes then the O2 can be used....if you install the Bungs make sure you get thm in a good location so they won't fill up with junk from the engine exhaust, look at the factory location for a template.
If you don't run the O2 sensor the bike will still perform fine....you will be running off the VE settings totally for the AFR. You will and must go into theFuel table and change all the AFR that is set at 14.6 to 14.4 to 13.8 depending on your compression and build.The 14.6 is the switch that turns on the sensors...ie. if the ECM doesn't see 14.6 in the Fuel Table the sensors aren't working anyway, the ECM is not looking for thevoltage reading (bias voltage) the O2 puts out.Some people see this 14.6 and say thats way too lean so they change it to another setting which in turn shuts off the O2 sensors with out knowing it and the bike still runs, so there you have it. Bottom line is, it's MUCH betterto runthe O2 sensors because of the job they perform, but it's not going to hurt not to run them.
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From:
RE: pipes and o2 sensors
Doc, you are incorrect. If you set the AF to anything other than 14.6, the O2's will be ignored, but the ECM will continue to look for them. It will then throw a code because it cannot see them - it looks to see that they are alive and will use 50 kpa for a inute as a trigger. You would need to flash the bike with an open loop map to eliminate the O2's and not throw a code if using the EFI Tuner.
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Joined: May 2007
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From: Florida
RE: pipes and o2 sensors
I don't remember saying anything about a code....I said he can run the pipes which was his question. Powercommanders through codes sometimes too but it doesn't effect the ridibility of the bike. When you tune the SERT the Fuel table is set at 13.2 in every grid and it doesn't through a code. It will through a code if the Adaptive fuel value is way off (new for 07 year only), or the integrator is out of its parameters
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Intermediate
Joined: May 2007
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From: Belfry, KY
RE: pipes and o2 sensors
thanks guys for your input. looks like since i've already got these pipes i may just get an exhaust shop to weld the bungs in. just wanted to keep the area clean looking, since i've got this set on hand. if i were buying new pipes it wouldnt be a big deal. also dont most tuners sort of bypass/ ignorethe o2 sensors beyond a certain RPM or something? i realize they are there for epa emissions and such, but are they really necessary?
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2007
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From: Florida
RE: pipes and o2 sensors
ORIGINAL: BIG6Y
thanks guys for your input. looks like since i've already got these pipes i may just get an exhaust shop to weld the bungs in. just wanted to keep the area clean looking, since i've got this set on hand. if i were buying new pipes it wouldnt be a big deal. also dont most tuners sort of bypass/ ignorethe o2 sensors beyond a certain RPM or something? i realize they are there for epa emissions and such, but are they really necessary?
thanks guys for your input. looks like since i've already got these pipes i may just get an exhaust shop to weld the bungs in. just wanted to keep the area clean looking, since i've got this set on hand. if i were buying new pipes it wouldnt be a big deal. also dont most tuners sort of bypass/ ignorethe o2 sensors beyond a certain RPM or something? i realize they are there for epa emissions and such, but are they really necessary?
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Road Captain
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 741
Likes: 11
From: West Central WI
RE: pipes and o2 sensors
ORIGINAL: One_Screamin_Eagle
Doc, you are incorrect. If you set the AF to anything other than 14.6, the O2's will be ignored, but the ECM will continue to look for them. It will then throw a code because it cannot see them - it looks to see that they are alive and will use 50 kpa for a inute as a trigger. You would need to flash the bike with an open loop map to eliminate the O2's and not throw a code if using the EFI Tuner.
Doc, you are incorrect. If you set the AF to anything other than 14.6, the O2's will be ignored, but the ECM will continue to look for them. It will then throw a code because it cannot see them - it looks to see that they are alive and will use 50 kpa for a inute as a trigger. You would need to flash the bike with an open loop map to eliminate the O2's and not throw a code if using the EFI Tuner.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,304
Likes: 31
From: Florida
RE: pipes and o2 sensors
ORIGINAL: BVBOB
You are absolutely correct that the ecm will throw a cel code if the 02 sensors are not installed, no matter what the afr map is set at,but it has been my experience that the 07 ecm's will not accept an open loop map, I would be interested to hear if you have actually done this and what map you used. Sorry to get off topic here.
ORIGINAL: One_Screamin_Eagle
Doc, you are incorrect. If you set the AF to anything other than 14.6, the O2's will be ignored, but the ECM will continue to look for them. It will then throw a code because it cannot see them - it looks to see that they are alive and will use 50 kpa for a inute as a trigger. You would need to flash the bike with an open loop map to eliminate the O2's and not throw a code if using the EFI Tuner.
Doc, you are incorrect. If you set the AF to anything other than 14.6, the O2's will be ignored, but the ECM will continue to look for them. It will then throw a code because it cannot see them - it looks to see that they are alive and will use 50 kpa for a inute as a trigger. You would need to flash the bike with an open loop map to eliminate the O2's and not throw a code if using the EFI Tuner.