Smoke after breather re route
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From: along the shore of Mishigami
RE: Smoke after breather re route
Is this on a newer bike? Did you get the hoses on tight on the vents at the top of the heads where the hoses that used to go to the air cleaner plate/filter. Now a real hard question if I may ask, why did you did this in the first place, were you having venting problems?
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Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2007
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RE: Smoke after breather re route
Yes it is an '07 FXDB. I re routed it to stop the nasty dirt/oil/water mixure from recirculating in my top end. A few members here have done it.
I did it right 4 sure. Just wanna know if any one else has noticed smoke comming from thier mod.
Thanks
I did it right 4 sure. Just wanna know if any one else has noticed smoke comming from thier mod.
Thanks
Road Captain
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 507
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From: Portland, OR
RE: Smoke after breather re route
Just to be sure I'm reading you right: is the smoke coming from the connections to the cases, or from the puke can? Is the puke can vented?
One of the benefits of c-case breathing on the engine side of the filter is that engine vacuum keeps up with c-case pressure - no fumes in the atmosphere and it's cleaner on the bike. This is why it's the "EPA compliant" way to do this, but it also keeps the motor and garage floor clean as well.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say you don't want to re-circulate in your top end. It just burns it, and cars have been doing it this way since the late 60s with no problems. An unhealthty engine could cause filter-fouling and a dirty throttle body, but in a healthy engine you shouldn't have any problems at all short of an occasional spray of carb cleaner into the t-body. You might also have excessive blow-by or a head gasket leak, and the puke system is giving you a heads up.
Not saying there's anything wrong with using the puke can if you have to in cases of certain aftermarket filters, or even just because it looks cool (which it DEFINITELY DOES!). Smokin' and drippin' is just a normal part of that vintage look with a lot of engines. Not preaching or complaining, just really curious!
One of the benefits of c-case breathing on the engine side of the filter is that engine vacuum keeps up with c-case pressure - no fumes in the atmosphere and it's cleaner on the bike. This is why it's the "EPA compliant" way to do this, but it also keeps the motor and garage floor clean as well.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say you don't want to re-circulate in your top end. It just burns it, and cars have been doing it this way since the late 60s with no problems. An unhealthty engine could cause filter-fouling and a dirty throttle body, but in a healthy engine you shouldn't have any problems at all short of an occasional spray of carb cleaner into the t-body. You might also have excessive blow-by or a head gasket leak, and the puke system is giving you a heads up.
Not saying there's anything wrong with using the puke can if you have to in cases of certain aftermarket filters, or even just because it looks cool (which it DEFINITELY DOES!). Smokin' and drippin' is just a normal part of that vintage look with a lot of engines. Not preaching or complaining, just really curious!
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Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2007
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RE: Smoke after breather re route
ORIGINAL: mfuchs2004
Just to be sure I'm reading you right: is the smoke coming from the connections to the cases, or from the puke can? Is the puke can vented?
One of the benefits of c-case breathing on the engine side of the filter is that engine vacuum keeps up with c-case pressure - no fumes in the atmosphere and it's cleaner on the bike. This is why it's the "EPA compliant" way to do this, but it also keeps the motor and garage floor clean as well.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say you don't want to re-circulate in your top end. It just burns it, and cars have been doing it this way since the late 60s with no problems. An unhealthty engine could cause filter-fouling and a dirty throttle body, but in a healthy engine you shouldn't have any problems at all short of an occasional spray of carb cleaner into the t-body. You might also have excessive blow-by or a head gasket leak, and the puke system is giving you a heads up.
Not saying there's anything wrong with using the puke can if you have to in cases of certain aftermarket filters, or even just because it looks cool (which it DEFINITELY DOES!). Smokin' and drippin' is just a normal part of that vintage look with a lot of engines. Not preaching or complaining, just really curious!
Just to be sure I'm reading you right: is the smoke coming from the connections to the cases, or from the puke can? Is the puke can vented?
One of the benefits of c-case breathing on the engine side of the filter is that engine vacuum keeps up with c-case pressure - no fumes in the atmosphere and it's cleaner on the bike. This is why it's the "EPA compliant" way to do this, but it also keeps the motor and garage floor clean as well.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say you don't want to re-circulate in your top end. It just burns it, and cars have been doing it this way since the late 60s with no problems. An unhealthty engine could cause filter-fouling and a dirty throttle body, but in a healthy engine you shouldn't have any problems at all short of an occasional spray of carb cleaner into the t-body. You might also have excessive blow-by or a head gasket leak, and the puke system is giving you a heads up.
Not saying there's anything wrong with using the puke can if you have to in cases of certain aftermarket filters, or even just because it looks cool (which it DEFINITELY DOES!). Smokin' and drippin' is just a normal part of that vintage look with a lot of engines. Not preaching or complaining, just really curious!
Where EXACTLY its comming from........Im not sure.(sounds like im trippin right?
) Its in the general area of the a/c backplate. Its not alot. Its just there. When I kill the engine it stops,so its not like the can spit oil on the hotpipes, jugsor heads.And yes,The canis vented.I think its comming from the can but i cant be sure as the vacum created buy the filter/throttle body is possibly making the smoke appear at the back plate, and above. Hope I am being descriptve enough.
As to Y I re routed my breather....... all the stock set up does is send water and crudyoil recirculated from the C case to be burned in my heads. (combustion chamber).
mfuchs2004 I apprecite you taking the time to respond. Thanks Bro
Road Captain
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 507
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From: Portland, OR
RE: Smoke after breather re route
If you aren't buring oil at an excessive rate, and you only see it at shut off, then you're probably normal. I think you're on the money that you don't see it at other times cause the motor is suckingup what little smoke there is at the filter anyway.
Time should tell if your hose connections are tight enough to handle the hot gas pressures (should be low) and temps (will be high) because they eventually show some gunk if they're not absolutely tight.
Another "think" you gave me. Did you make sure to plug up the backplate holes with something the motor can't suck up? Leaving holes can be bad, and there was another thread where a guy sucked up a screw and trashed one of his jugs - valve, piston, bent the pushrod, the works. Sucked to be him that day for sure!
Since you've done the work, might as well keep it, especially if you like it. As to whether or not it fixes a problem? I had the same question WAAAYY back in shop class in the 70s. The shop teacher made me do the math - clean air charge in cubic feet per hour vs. worst case crankcase vent rate. I got curious to see how much air the TC96 sucks. Here it is (Gee, I don't seem to have near enough to do today, LOL):
96 cu in = .66 cu ft.
divide by 2 for a 4-stroker = .33 cu ft. air charge per revolution
.33 cu ft. X 2500 rpm = 825 cu ft. air charge per minute
825 cu ft. air charge per minute X 60 minutes per hour = 49,500 cu ft. air charge per hour
That's the same amount of air in 3 family sized homes every hour. That's a heckuva lot of clean air mixed with an itty bitty amount of c-case fume, even more when you consider how many hours you can run that baby and not fill that can up. Of course, all that math assumes you can keep her at 2,500 for an hour, and I know I never can - it's not me, it's that damned weak-*ss throttle return spring!~
Sorry, I guess I was just bored. Thanks for keeping me occupied, LOL!
Time should tell if your hose connections are tight enough to handle the hot gas pressures (should be low) and temps (will be high) because they eventually show some gunk if they're not absolutely tight.
Another "think" you gave me. Did you make sure to plug up the backplate holes with something the motor can't suck up? Leaving holes can be bad, and there was another thread where a guy sucked up a screw and trashed one of his jugs - valve, piston, bent the pushrod, the works. Sucked to be him that day for sure!
Since you've done the work, might as well keep it, especially if you like it. As to whether or not it fixes a problem? I had the same question WAAAYY back in shop class in the 70s. The shop teacher made me do the math - clean air charge in cubic feet per hour vs. worst case crankcase vent rate. I got curious to see how much air the TC96 sucks. Here it is (Gee, I don't seem to have near enough to do today, LOL):
96 cu in = .66 cu ft.
divide by 2 for a 4-stroker = .33 cu ft. air charge per revolution
.33 cu ft. X 2500 rpm = 825 cu ft. air charge per minute
825 cu ft. air charge per minute X 60 minutes per hour = 49,500 cu ft. air charge per hour
That's the same amount of air in 3 family sized homes every hour. That's a heckuva lot of clean air mixed with an itty bitty amount of c-case fume, even more when you consider how many hours you can run that baby and not fill that can up. Of course, all that math assumes you can keep her at 2,500 for an hour, and I know I never can - it's not me, it's that damned weak-*ss throttle return spring!~
Sorry, I guess I was just bored. Thanks for keeping me occupied, LOL!
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RE: Smoke after breather re route
Thanks again for the help. But It only happens while running. I need to experiment some! Will post results.
Thanks Brother.
Thanks Brother.
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Supporter
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: along the shore of Mishigami
RE: Smoke after breather re route
mfuchs 2004, I'm a bit intrigued by the thread, wasn't the vent to atmosphere system "developed" for the shovels and the EVO engines that had a somewhat inadequate c-case pressure relief and would blow outcylinder base gaskets. I'mjust having a problem visulizing smoke behind the a/c platewhen the engine is running, when in theory all c-case vapors are supposed to be going down to the catch can. You don't suppose the ventsin the head cases to the atmosphere have holes in the side of them much like a banjo bolt allowing the vapor 'smoke" to vent
Road Captain
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 507
Likes: 1
From: Portland, OR
RE: Smoke after breather re route
I'm pretty sure you're right about HD and the vents. Everymotor is gonna need to vent pressure somehow, or it's gonna find a way out on its own. I'd rather burn it myself, but that's just me. I do like the look of p-cans on certain bikes, however.
He'sseeing a bit of smokeonly when running. I'm hoping it's really steam or a light oil mist, because no way should that engine be getting the oil hot enough to smoke. I do know that there's a heckuva lot of water generated when burning that alcohol fortified winter fuel crap they sell.That stuff is hell on enginesthat do short-distance duty. I've actually seen water drops on the dipsticks when the motor is cold. He's probably right in thinking it's rising out of the puke can vent, and he's just seeing it collect around the a/c backplate. If it's coming out the puke can vent, I'm thinking it's nomal if it's only just a wisp here and there. If he used the right hardware to connect his tubes to the top of the jugs, he shouldn't be venting up there. From his desc. he'sgot it done correctly. He'll know for sure because it'll get greasy around any leak. I'm prayin' that it's not a case of excessive case pressure, because there's onlya fewways to get that and none are good. If that's the case as least it's under warranty.
I'm looking forward to what he finds out.
He'sseeing a bit of smokeonly when running. I'm hoping it's really steam or a light oil mist, because no way should that engine be getting the oil hot enough to smoke. I do know that there's a heckuva lot of water generated when burning that alcohol fortified winter fuel crap they sell.That stuff is hell on enginesthat do short-distance duty. I've actually seen water drops on the dipsticks when the motor is cold. He's probably right in thinking it's rising out of the puke can vent, and he's just seeing it collect around the a/c backplate. If it's coming out the puke can vent, I'm thinking it's nomal if it's only just a wisp here and there. If he used the right hardware to connect his tubes to the top of the jugs, he shouldn't be venting up there. From his desc. he'sgot it done correctly. He'll know for sure because it'll get greasy around any leak. I'm prayin' that it's not a case of excessive case pressure, because there's onlya fewways to get that and none are good. If that's the case as least it's under warranty.
I'm looking forward to what he finds out.