PV Tune question
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 6,057
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From: Kalifornia
PV Tune question
Ok so have done complete stage one on my '14 Ultra Classic. Slip ons, air filter/intake, and PV tune for said items. Its still running lean. I pulled the plugs this evening and front looked like new plug, and rear, the arm (adjustable part of plug for setting gap) had the slightest bit of black soot, but the rest of the plug looked new. Very odd, but looks to be still running lean to me. I did run one or two (I forget) autotunes but nothing for the last couple months.
So should I contact Fuel moto for another tune, or keep auto tuning? Opinions?
So should I contact Fuel moto for another tune, or keep auto tuning? Opinions?
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 78
Likes: 42
From: Italy
In my experience the PV autotune was not such effective, so I tried a different approach with “mytune”.
By utilizing the PV for LOG record, mytune will provide you best numbers for your bike, even for spark advance. In my case I was able to get a very good map with only four runs (map is fine when the the average tables value adjustments are within 0,5%-1%) with both my bikes, a 16 FLTRU and a 09 FXDC.
More information here: https://tunemyharley.com
By utilizing the PV for LOG record, mytune will provide you best numbers for your bike, even for spark advance. In my case I was able to get a very good map with only four runs (map is fine when the the average tables value adjustments are within 0,5%-1%) with both my bikes, a 16 FLTRU and a 09 FXDC.
More information here: https://tunemyharley.com
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,158
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From: San Diego, CA
I have received at least four different tune maps from FuelMoto for various bikes...
I always do a couple 20-30min auto tune sessions, just to dial in the tunes to my specific Bike's VE (volumetric efficiency)...
I happen to also have the old Auto Tune Pro Module that uses the wide band O2 sensors for the dialing in of the VE tables....
I have never needed to do more than one or two Auto tune sessions, even with the wide band auto tune pro.... to get the average change in the VE tables to 4% or less...
Once dialed in by auto tune, the tunes will match up to your bike pretty closely...
If there is rideability issue somewhere in the tune parameters, just send a data log to FuelMoto and they will dial it in.....
Example: They dyno tuned my 124" crate engine in their shop on a cool October day in Wisconsin....
Eight months later I was riding in 105° heat, here in SoCal, and thought I heard some pinging....
I sent them a datalog, they spotted a couple knock events, adjusted the tune, and sent it back... All good now...!!
I always do a couple 20-30min auto tune sessions, just to dial in the tunes to my specific Bike's VE (volumetric efficiency)...
I happen to also have the old Auto Tune Pro Module that uses the wide band O2 sensors for the dialing in of the VE tables....
I have never needed to do more than one or two Auto tune sessions, even with the wide band auto tune pro.... to get the average change in the VE tables to 4% or less...
Once dialed in by auto tune, the tunes will match up to your bike pretty closely...
If there is rideability issue somewhere in the tune parameters, just send a data log to FuelMoto and they will dial it in.....
Example: They dyno tuned my 124" crate engine in their shop on a cool October day in Wisconsin....
Eight months later I was riding in 105° heat, here in SoCal, and thought I heard some pinging....
I sent them a datalog, they spotted a couple knock events, adjusted the tune, and sent it back... All good now...!!
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,399
Likes: 92
From: ny
I'd start with making sure you have no leaks ,exhaust or intake. A leak can mess with your tune.
If no leaks found you can send your tune to fuel moto, they will make adjustments and send the tune back to you, to flash to your ecm.
I'd post this in this in the Ignition/tuner section. Alot of knowledgeable people there.
If no leaks found you can send your tune to fuel moto, they will make adjustments and send the tune back to you, to flash to your ecm.
I'd post this in this in the Ignition/tuner section. Alot of knowledgeable people there.
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Seasoned HDF Member
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From: Kalifornia
Ok thanks for the info folks. I honestly did wonder slightly about a leak on the intake. Idle sometimes varies quite a bit. Not as bad as it used to but I still notice a difference. I also know a leak can cause the lean issue. Problem is, have never dove into the fuel injection setups, or carbs on any HD. What points should I focus on for leak detection?
edit; The bike actually seems to run pretty darn good, but I am concerned about the lean plugs.
edit; The bike actually seems to run pretty darn good, but I am concerned about the lean plugs.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,399
Likes: 92
From: ny
I'd start with making sure no leaks where the slip on go on the head pipe, and the new AC isn't leaking around the gasket. A plug that has black soot, is usually a rich running condition. Check the above, if all is good
I'd run a few more auto tune runs and see if that makes a difference. Look at your VE tables and see if the numbers are changing less after each uto Tune run.
If not get ahold of fuel moto, they will help ya out.
I'd run a few more auto tune runs and see if that makes a difference. Look at your VE tables and see if the numbers are changing less after each uto Tune run.
If not get ahold of fuel moto, they will help ya out.
Last edited by rsking45; Dec 7, 2020 at 11:57 AM.
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 146
Likes: 23
From: Leatherstocking Country
I don't know how many miles or how much time you have on your 114, but the plastic plenums have been found to be the culprit on a few occasions. Screamin' Eagle has an aluminum replacement, around $190, if I recall, if it is in fact the problem. It is slightly bigger and would require some additional tune, of course.
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From: Kalifornia
Tail Rid'r
If you were talking to me, I have a 103" engine. I also have the aluminum backing plate by SE. i am in the process of modding my SE slip ons, and will try several runs at autotune before I take other steps.
If you were talking to me, I have a 103" engine. I also have the aluminum backing plate by SE. i am in the process of modding my SE slip ons, and will try several runs at autotune before I take other steps.
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A short answer is while you may be able to help make some basic determinations from reading the spark plugs it's is not a truly accurate indication of the running condition for several reasons; this includes but is not limited to the blends in todays fuels, reversion, and the general AF ratio's these engines run at. A far more accurate way to see the specific running conditions is to monitor or log engine data with your Power Vision, specifically closed loop data which gives us a direct indication if the motor is rich or lean based on O2 sensor feedback. There is an article on logging data with your Power Vision on the FM University site here> https://university.fuelmotousa.com/a...rley-davidson/
To watch live fuel corrections (short term fuel trims) with your Power Vision you can view the channels Front & Rear Closed Loop Integrator (CLI), these channel represent a +/- multiplier of the live fuel corrections as a %. For stored (Adaptive) corrections (long term fuel trims) you can view Front & Rear Adaptive Fuel Factor (AFF). See the following from the FM University site:
To watch live fuel corrections (short term fuel trims) with your Power Vision you can view the channels Front & Rear Closed Loop Integrator (CLI), these channel represent a +/- multiplier of the live fuel corrections as a %. For stored (Adaptive) corrections (long term fuel trims) you can view Front & Rear Adaptive Fuel Factor (AFF). See the following from the FM University site:
- the Closed Loop Integrator (CLI-short term fuel trim) will be active during normal riding conditions. This value should constantly swing up and down constantly, where the value of 100 is the pivot point. For example if a CLI value of 103 is reported, that means the ECM had to add 3% to the respective front or rear cylinder VE table in order to achieve the target AFR or Lambda. Conversely, the value of 97 would indicate the ECM had to subtract 3% to the respective front or rear cylinder VE table in order to achieve the target AFR or Lambda. To view these channels, assign them to a gauge. Youre looking for Front Closed Loop Integrator and Rear Closed Loop Integrator.
- If you have Adaptive Fuel enabled in your calibration, then you should also notice Adaptive Fuel Factor (AFF) change over time. These learned values will move, or change much slower than the CLI. When the proper conditions have been met the ECM will generate long term/long term fuel trims (AFF). If you see a AFF value of 105 reported, that means the ECM has applied 5% to the respective front or rear cylinder VE table in order to achieve the target AFR or Lambda. Conversely, the value of 95 would indicate the ECM had to subtract 5% to the respective front or rear cylinder VE table in order to achieve the target AFR or Lambda. To view these channels, assign them to a gauge. Youre looking for Front Adaptive Fuel Factor and Rear Adaptive Fuel Factor
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Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Thread Starter
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2018
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From: Kalifornia
LOL, I need one of those imogies with a hand swooping over my head, as in, that just went way over my head. As I mentioned earlier, I am in the process of upgrading the SE slipons, with Fulsac baffles and other changes. When I get that done, I will fun some auto tune runs, and then look into recording the data as you mentioned. I will follow up on this, but kinda pointless at this point, since I am changing things.
I started making these changes after starting this thread, so I will have to pick up where I left off or start new.
I started making these changes after starting this thread, so I will have to pick up where I left off or start new.