Let's talk about factory warrantees...
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 4,250
Likes: 3,129
From: Texas
Will a Power vision be able to defeat that system? That's your gamble. Understand that Harley is under Federal court order to void all powertrain warranties on all bikes if they (or their dealers) have ANY knowledge that the bike has used a non-epa- compliant tuner (which means all aftermarket tuners). I would think it reasonable to expect that Harley would be required to do the trivially basic task of installing a way to detect whether a noncompliant tuner was used... I mean, that's so ridiculously simple, it would be nigh unto criminal negligence if they didn't build in such a simple system and I would expect the court to fricassee their ***** if they so blatantly flaunted the Court's intentions.
So it's your gamble. Is it worth the risk? Your call.
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 444
Likes: 92
From: xx
Some say yes, some say no. I know that a Harley dealer was able to determine that my bike had been tuned by an HD Pro Street Tuner; there was some signature that they could see to determine that the existing tune in the bike had been flashed in there by the Harley tuner.
Will a Power vision be able to defeat that system? That's your gamble. Understand that Harley is under Federal court order to void all powertrain warranties on all bikes if they (or their dealers) have ANY knowledge that the bike has used a non-epa- compliant tuner (which means all aftermarket tuners). I would think it reasonable to expect that Harley would be required to do the trivially basic task of installing a way to detect whether a noncompliant tuner was used... I mean, that's so ridiculously simple, it would be nigh unto criminal negligence if they didn't build in such a simple system and I would expect the court to fricassee their ***** if they so blatantly flaunted the Court's intentions.
So it's your gamble. Is it worth the risk? Your call.
Will a Power vision be able to defeat that system? That's your gamble. Understand that Harley is under Federal court order to void all powertrain warranties on all bikes if they (or their dealers) have ANY knowledge that the bike has used a non-epa- compliant tuner (which means all aftermarket tuners). I would think it reasonable to expect that Harley would be required to do the trivially basic task of installing a way to detect whether a noncompliant tuner was used... I mean, that's so ridiculously simple, it would be nigh unto criminal negligence if they didn't build in such a simple system and I would expect the court to fricassee their ***** if they so blatantly flaunted the Court's intentions.
So it's your gamble. Is it worth the risk? Your call.
BTW, it's not as trivial as you think, there are many increasingly elaborate ways of circumventing factory protections. If an iPhone can be jail-braked, an HD computer can be re-programmed to erase any non-factory tune instance, if given enough time and effort.
Club Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 10,734
Likes: 3,755
From: SWFL
Some say yes, some say no. I know that a Harley dealer was able to determine that my bike had been tuned by an HD Pro Street Tuner; there was some signature that they could see to determine that the existing tune in the bike had been flashed in there by the Harley tuner.
Will a Power vision be able to defeat that system? That's your gamble. Understand that Harley is under Federal court order to void all powertrain warranties on all bikes if they (or their dealers) have ANY knowledge that the bike has used a non-epa- compliant tuner (which means all aftermarket tuners). I would think it reasonable to expect that Harley would be required to do the trivially basic task of installing a way to detect whether a noncompliant tuner was used... I mean, that's so ridiculously simple, it would be nigh unto criminal negligence if they didn't build in such a simple system and I would expect the court to fricassee their ***** if they so blatantly flaunted the Court's intentions.
So it's your gamble. Is it worth the risk? Your call.
Will a Power vision be able to defeat that system? That's your gamble. Understand that Harley is under Federal court order to void all powertrain warranties on all bikes if they (or their dealers) have ANY knowledge that the bike has used a non-epa- compliant tuner (which means all aftermarket tuners). I would think it reasonable to expect that Harley would be required to do the trivially basic task of installing a way to detect whether a noncompliant tuner was used... I mean, that's so ridiculously simple, it would be nigh unto criminal negligence if they didn't build in such a simple system and I would expect the court to fricassee their ***** if they so blatantly flaunted the Court's intentions.
So it's your gamble. Is it worth the risk? Your call.
That's obviously not going to happen for small claims, but if you have a blown motor and a big claim is submitted, you run the risk of scrutiny...
Last edited by Mchad; Jan 30, 2019 at 10:00 AM.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 4,250
Likes: 3,129
From: Texas
Well, yes, anything's possible and it's possible that reflashing with an SE tuner would mask what you've done for casual examination. But the SE tuner isn't like an FP3, you don't control it over a phone, so -- if you're on a trip and something happens, what are you going to do? Did you bring your laptop with you that has the SE software on it? Did you bring the tuner itself? Did you remember to bring the cable kit? And if you did, and even if you manage to successfully flash an SE tune in there... will it be the right tune for whatever components you have installed on the bike? What if you got the aftermarket tuner to tune to a new cam you got, but when going back to the SE tuner there's no tune that will work properly, so even if you manage to retune it, when they plug in the exhaust sniffer it's going to show that the bike's running horribly, which will lead them to question why, which will lead them down the rabbit hole to find out what you've done...
... and then, if you got away with all that... did you bring your PowerVision with you so you can retune the bike in the field before driving all the way home? No? So now you have to drive all the way home with the wrong tune in the bike? Or if you had a TTS, did you think to bring your TTS with you, and the laptop, and the cable kit, so you could retune before heading out for hundreds of miles with the wrong tune installed?
I mean, even if you could do it, how is this all possibly worth it? Seems preposterous.
... and then, if you got away with all that... did you bring your PowerVision with you so you can retune the bike in the field before driving all the way home? No? So now you have to drive all the way home with the wrong tune in the bike? Or if you had a TTS, did you think to bring your TTS with you, and the laptop, and the cable kit, so you could retune before heading out for hundreds of miles with the wrong tune installed?
I mean, even if you could do it, how is this all possibly worth it? Seems preposterous.
Club Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 10,734
Likes: 3,755
From: SWFL
Well, yes, anything's possible and it's possible that reflashing with an SE tuner would mask what you've done for casual examination. But the SE tuner isn't like an FP3, you don't control it over a phone, so -- if you're on a trip and something happens, what are you going to do? Did you bring your laptop with you that has the SE software on it? Did you bring the tuner itself? Did you remember to bring the cable kit? And if you did, and even if you manage to successfully flash an SE tune in there... will it be the right tune for whatever components you have installed on the bike? What if you got the aftermarket tuner to tune to a new cam you got, but when going back to the SE tuner there's no tune that will work properly, so even if you manage to retune it, when they plug in the exhaust sniffer it's going to show that the bike's running horribly, which will lead them to question why, which will lead them down the rabbit hole to find out what you've done...
... and then, if you got away with all that... did you bring your PowerVision with you so you can retune the bike in the field before driving all the way home? No? So now you have to drive all the way home with the wrong tune in the bike? Or if you had a TTS, did you think to bring your TTS with you, and the laptop, and the cable kit, so you could retune before heading out for hundreds of miles with the wrong tune installed?
I mean, even if you could do it, how is this all possibly worth it? Seems preposterous.
... and then, if you got away with all that... did you bring your PowerVision with you so you can retune the bike in the field before driving all the way home? No? So now you have to drive all the way home with the wrong tune in the bike? Or if you had a TTS, did you think to bring your TTS with you, and the laptop, and the cable kit, so you could retune before heading out for hundreds of miles with the wrong tune installed?
I mean, even if you could do it, how is this all possibly worth it? Seems preposterous.
Everything you wrote is easily surmountable. If you have half a brain, you've already loaded the correct tune to your ECM from the SE tuner. When you marry whatever 3rd party tuner to the bike, most if not all, save a copy of your original tune to the device. Lets just say a power vision for arguments sake. Now on this PV you have your "illegal" tune, AND a copy of your original tune. It's a simple as plugging it in and flashing whichever you choose.
Yes, of course you need to have it with you, to do it. But again, he with a brain would take it with him on any long trip that puts him outside his "home base". Problem solved. No need to carry a SE tuner and laptop. Just a little cigarette pack sized box and a cable. If you don't, or you are one of the supposed people who have rolled into a service bay with a 3rd party tune on their ECM's, only to get voided, then honestly, they're not too sharp.
We're also not talking those who have had engine mods (the 3rd party cam you mentioned) we're not talking about that here. If you've cracked the motor open to install a non-HD cam, you've certainly accepted you have no warranty, so I'm not going to even bother with that.
You're making things a lot more complicated then they really would be.
Besides, this is all hypothetical. None of us are going to violate federal law and risk our warranties. That's just silly. I know I won't.
Last edited by Mchad; Jan 30, 2019 at 11:35 AM.
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