Early Softail M8s - Need to update / replace oil pump?
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,117
Likes: 1,193
From: Maryland
I've been thinking.... dangerous I know... but it seems to me that before replacing the oil pump etc., it might be a good idea to have a leak down test done. Might want to see if excessive blow-by might be a contributing factor to the puking. Might be good idea to see if more needs to be done here than simply replacing the oil pump.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
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From:
I dunno, I'm sorta/kinda moderately concerned about this but in aviation they say, "If it ain't broke - don't fix it."
I have two M8s, an '18 Road Glide and a '19 Low Rider - both 107s and both stock except for slip-ons. I have externally vented the breather(s) on both and run with the oil level about where it indicates "add" half a quart. I have never had a problem yet to include long stretches of high speeds - think Iron Butt ride. I did have the primary case vent installed on the RG but that's to prevent transmission oil transfer - a different issue ... which I did not experience. I don't have the extended warranty and both bikes are out of factory warranty. I avoid the Stealership service departments like the plague. Both bikes are running fine with no issues.
All that being said, I do believe that there was a problem and I do believe that the new pump (latest of, what, four?) has more scavenging capabilities at the apparent expense of less pressure/supply capability. The jury will be a long time before coming out on if that was a good idea or not - but it's what the MoCo (eventually) did to deal with sumping. Be reminded that the MoCo also changed the digital PSI oil pressure indication to "OK" from a numeric value. My thinking is the MoCo didn't want owners freaking out when stopped at a traffic light in hot weather and seeing very low oil pressure. In regard to what sumping did occur to some owners, the MoCo's reported recommendation to just pull over, let it sit, then let it idle was silent on the issue of what damage may have been caused by high engine temps and low lubrication at the same time - something that may not reveal itself until well past the warranty period.
I have two M8s, an '18 Road Glide and a '19 Low Rider - both 107s and both stock except for slip-ons. I have externally vented the breather(s) on both and run with the oil level about where it indicates "add" half a quart. I have never had a problem yet to include long stretches of high speeds - think Iron Butt ride. I did have the primary case vent installed on the RG but that's to prevent transmission oil transfer - a different issue ... which I did not experience. I don't have the extended warranty and both bikes are out of factory warranty. I avoid the Stealership service departments like the plague. Both bikes are running fine with no issues.
All that being said, I do believe that there was a problem and I do believe that the new pump (latest of, what, four?) has more scavenging capabilities at the apparent expense of less pressure/supply capability. The jury will be a long time before coming out on if that was a good idea or not - but it's what the MoCo (eventually) did to deal with sumping. Be reminded that the MoCo also changed the digital PSI oil pressure indication to "OK" from a numeric value. My thinking is the MoCo didn't want owners freaking out when stopped at a traffic light in hot weather and seeing very low oil pressure. In regard to what sumping did occur to some owners, the MoCo's reported recommendation to just pull over, let it sit, then let it idle was silent on the issue of what damage may have been caused by high engine temps and low lubrication at the same time - something that may not reveal itself until well past the warranty period.
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 100
Likes: 40
From: merrillville, in
Check a few things first
The Softail M8s didnt have the transfer issue the way the 17s did, so you should be okay there
As for the oil getting into the air cleaner, theres a bunch of possibilities other than sumping. If start with not adding any oil until when hot l, level is at the bottom D on the dipstick. Ive found from mine that if I fill oil so level is at Full when hot, within 200 miles, it will lose a half a quart. But if I keep level 1/2 way on stick and only add a half a quart at a time, Ill have to add 1/2 qt about every 1200 miles.
And when you are ready to change your oil, order a full service oil sample kit. You will be looking for signs that combustion gasses are getting past the rings and into crankcase, which would indicate rings arent sealing right.
Full disclosure, I have an 18 SportGlide and am planning full cam chest change this winter with S&S465 kit.
As for the oil getting into the air cleaner, theres a bunch of possibilities other than sumping. If start with not adding any oil until when hot l, level is at the bottom D on the dipstick. Ive found from mine that if I fill oil so level is at Full when hot, within 200 miles, it will lose a half a quart. But if I keep level 1/2 way on stick and only add a half a quart at a time, Ill have to add 1/2 qt about every 1200 miles.
And when you are ready to change your oil, order a full service oil sample kit. You will be looking for signs that combustion gasses are getting past the rings and into crankcase, which would indicate rings arent sealing right.
Full disclosure, I have an 18 SportGlide and am planning full cam chest change this winter with S&S465 kit.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 4,347
Likes: 3,392
From: Seattle
The new oil pump had nothing to do with the primary transfer issue, AFAIK.
It was about preventing mostly the touring bikes from sumping.
Which means you should probably replace it if you have a touring bike for sure.
I'd replace it for the M8 Softails. You'd just need the 150$ pump kit plus seal, and SE adjustable pushrod kit.
THOUGH BIG WARNING HERE... if you want to replace the tappet cuffs during the pump update, undo the tappet cuff bolts wiggling in only AFTER you've heated up the underside of the tappet block for 5 minutes:
Or you'll have to potentially deal with the same broken bolt bullshit I have too.
https://university.fuelmotousa.com/a...-removal-tips/
It was about preventing mostly the touring bikes from sumping.
Which means you should probably replace it if you have a touring bike for sure.
I'd replace it for the M8 Softails. You'd just need the 150$ pump kit plus seal, and SE adjustable pushrod kit.
THOUGH BIG WARNING HERE... if you want to replace the tappet cuffs during the pump update, undo the tappet cuff bolts wiggling in only AFTER you've heated up the underside of the tappet block for 5 minutes:
Or you'll have to potentially deal with the same broken bolt bullshit I have too.
https://university.fuelmotousa.com/a...-removal-tips/
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 21,175
Likes: 12,748
From: South Carolina
You don`t need to replace the one piece pushrods as long as you are willing to remove the rocker boxes.
Since the issue is excess oil from the breather, you probably should remove the rocker boxes and replace the breather valves (and save some money by keeping the OEM pushrods).
Follow the process called out in the service manual, you don`t need youtube...
Since the issue is excess oil from the breather, you probably should remove the rocker boxes and replace the breather valves (and save some money by keeping the OEM pushrods).
Follow the process called out in the service manual, you don`t need youtube...
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