Hey Rodney, thanks for the response. I'l have to get back to the guy's place to see what brand of paint we're using, but it's quality auto refinishing base coat/ clear coat paint. We have 60 and 70 degree reducers for the paint and clear. And, the paint, clear, hardener and reducer are a "refinishing system" all designed to work together. The guy is a fanatic about keeping his equipment clean, so I doubt that's the problem. Air supply clean. Mixing everything well.

As for the [sm=icon_guiness.gif], I wasn't there when it happened so....

The parts had been painted and 4 coats of clear laid on a week before the incident happened (we work 7 on and 7 off and he's doin this on our days off) so flash time was not the issue.

We're pretty sure that the temperature was the culprit in the instance of the clear goin to hell on us. It started off in the 50s that morning and warmed up to about 72. What we didn't realize was that the parts were still cold even thought the air temp was over 70. Many other parts had already been completed by this point. The flucuations in temp are the only difference we can see from the parts that came out great.


This guy has rebuilt the entire bike and hasn't charged me a dime. He's doing it just b/c he wants the bike to be as nice as it can be and he knows I don't have the money or skills to do it all myself.He's still learning about painting,so there ain't nothin wrong with lettin keep tryin til he gets this stumblin block figured out.

 

Its the style of gun I was asking about, the new clears are not designed to be hosed on I use ONLY HVLP guns low air pressure high volume some clears are more forgiving than others when applying.
you may be surprised if you took the surface temp of the parts before spraying I use one of those hand held pyrometers or Non-Contact Infrared Digital Thermometers before I paint if the conditions are questionable I am always surprised @ how wrong I am when I guess what the temp is of what I am painting.
In any of our Clears we use 4 coats are doomed to failure if not immediately down the road due to high film build the paint will chip easy and can give the color a yellow cast. Really bad if your matching a color to blend.
you guys will figure it out just keep at it.

 

one other thing now that I read you post again:
it's the flash time betweens coats of clear {hopefully its being all sprayed in one session} the clear should just start to "string" when you touch an area not critical like apiece that has been masked.
when you pull your finger off the wet clear if it just slides the clear it to wet for another coat.
if it is dry to the touch you are setting your self up for trouble because you are now trapping solvents in the bottom coats if you do this on 4 coats of clear "Man" I don't know what would happen??
When urethane clear is ready for another coat as you touch and pull your finger away you should see the clear string and stick to your finger and the panel and see little hairs or strings of clear in between.
It takes more than a paint job or 2 to figure out all that it to do a paint job correctly. Even with ideal conditions and years of experience it can be a challenge at times.

one other other thing, for the most part the guys selling the product don't paint they just sell the stuff I have seen many times the paint someone buys and take the word of the salesman and has trouble has the wrong paint for the application and conditions the paint is being applied in.
and if you ask one painter how to paint you will more than likely get a different answer than the next one If they will even talk to you.
good luck

 

Rodney. Thank you for sharing all this valuable knowledge with us.

If I understand you correctly, with urethane clear, 4 coats is about max and all coats should be sprayed in one session with theclear being stringy/tacky between each coat? I will passall this infoon. Holy crap dude, we were going as long as a week between coats of clear.

We just got back to work yesterday so it will be at least a week from yesterday before we get to try anything again. I'll update when I have new info.

Again, dude, thank you for your help.

 

I don't see any advantage to spraying the clear as you are doing it. Hopefully you were wet sanding the clear between coats with 800 grit wet of finer.
the urethanes products I have used for years all recommend 2 coats for proper build thickness.
build thickness is Dependant on spray equipment, technique how the spray gun is adjusted air pressure ect. 3-5 mils are what I try to reach when spraying clear about the thickness of a dollar bill. maybe a little thicker that that but not much. this give a durable top coat that will last for years if taken care of.
you HAVE to have the proper build thickness for the chemicals to lock up correctly and the product to cure and dry.
You are also playing Russian roulette when re coating urethane this can create the paint to create a reaction and wrinkle but this generally only happens if:
1. you cut through the clear you are spraying over or
2. you are spraying more base coat over the fresh clear

I've enjoyed helping you since I have been sitting home with the Flu I really don't have anything else to do but watch TV and goof around on my laptop.

one other thing that is not taken seriously enough is washing the surface your painting with the proper solvents before painting to remove contaminants that will cause more failures.
it a pinch you can use windex before tacking off the surface.

 

Well, hate to say I'm glad you're home sick, but.............

Yes, he is sanding and cleaning VERY thoroughly between coats if it has sat for a while between coats. We had a discussion last night about how many coats was too many and will be using fewer coats when he resprays the clear on the parts.

The weahter down here has finally come around to early spring type temps. High 60's in the AM and high 70's/ low 80's in the PM with moderate humidity. We should have beter luck with that kind of weather and your advice.

Any ideas on why the primer wouldn't over just that one small spot of bondo? The tank was stripped to bare metal, very small amount ofbondo applied to 3 small dings and allowed to cure for couple hours, bondo sanded down, tank sanded and cleaned, primer sprayed on. Within 20 minutes the primer dried everywhere but one one of the bondoed areas. That spot was still tacky a coupole hours later!!

Thanks a bunch, and get well soon!!

 

what kind of primer are you using?
if you are using an etching primer that will do it! the acids will eat into the plastic and cause all sorts of strange things.
no h2o on the plastic ya also don't wash the plastic before primer blow dry and wipe with clean cloth. plastics are absorbent like a sponge and hold what ever may contaminate paints and primer, sometime days and even weeks later I'm sure you've seen bubbles in paint jobs not done correctly thats one cause.
clean with appropriate solvents for the area.
this is how I paint in a nut shell
have all plastic finished with 180 dry
bare metal 180 to 220 dry
etch primer on bare metal only {very important}
prime with appropriate primers for what your doing.
if fill prime let it dry and wet sand with 400 wet inspect for defects like poor body work pin holes ect.
after sanded clean tac and seal with primer intended for sealing. only a coat not any more than that just for coverage.
let flash off until you can tac it off then tac
spray base coat One COAT AT A TIME let flash between coats and tac between coats if needed.
After you get coverage you can let the base dry a few hours or over night and lightly sand with 800 wet and re coat with more base.
let the base flash
now clear 2 coats 3 if you really think its necessary and plan on cutting and buffing.
do the clear all in one session as I described earlier.
don't re coat the clear unless you absolutely need to you aren't gaining anything that I can see by sanding and adding more coats. Get the clear on correctly the first time and leave it alone to cure.
it takes 70 degrees + for the urethane to lock up chemically.
this is how I've painted for years with PPG global and other ppg products.
good equipment, lighting and exhaust fan to evacuate the spray area are important for a successful job.
also take care not to breath the paint fumes as they are harmful to your lungs they also absorb in to your body through your eyes and skin.
you should have better luck this time, live and learn
glad someone is benefiting from me being sick [X(]

 

HEy Rodney,

Sorry for the delay in replying but I'm at work this week and got busy. Thanks for the Schoolin in paint and body and the words of encouragement. I will pass all thison to SOBB. Will update Tuesday or Wednesday after we get to work on it more.

 

keep is posted and lets see some images of the bike painted and back together.

 

wow....fascinating restoration read. thanks for posting, and keep doing so!

If you are interested.......as I am also very keen on the 1983 FXDG.....I could send you scans of the late 1982 edition of H-D's The Enthusiast mag which had the only factory-written article about that bike, and also the1982 article in Iron Horse magazine **written** byWillie G in which he describes how thebike came into being.

Saw a mint example at Daytona Harley-Davidson at their old site in 1997...it washanging over the entrance door. Naturally
the guy behind the parts counter had no idea what model it was. It is prob still on display in their new superstore.

There is one FXDG in England and it was profiled in a UK Harley mag last year.

Hope you have better luck in coming weeks... and hey, I might also be able to give you a very off-the-wall parts source to try for that badge you so desperately want.


Dave
dave85fxef@yahoo.com