Single vs Dual Disc brakes

Hmm...They look "COOL"

 

Brake feel is not something that I came up with. It is one of the things you normally evaluate when riding a bike and I thought everybody knew what it was, it may be somewhat subjective but it comes with an objective baseline. Of course then I stumbled in here.

My FXDLS is coming next week and the only performance mod is the upgrade to SS braided lines and EBC HH sintered pads to hopefully help braking distance but more than anything to provide what I consider "normal" feel.

I don't just grab a hand full of brakes and hold on and hope the ABS does all of the work for me. If I'm honkin down a road I expect to feel all of the parts of the bike working, the motor, the suspension, and the brakes.

Sure in a controlled environment with an expert jockey on board a cruiser can stop surprisingly quick, how about being able to control that stop out on some road away from a test track?

Sorry, The MoCo has created a culture and within this culture they appear to control expectations. Poor handling bikes with no cornering clearance are okay but thank God they focused on the Dyna line to change that, the suspension is finally getting some attention on a few bikes but otherwise simply bad is the norm, brakes on the touring line are getting better and have some feel but otherwise bad and dead are the norm.

I will likely never understand the whole cubic inch thing. I have a BMW R1200 GS LC which will still be quicker and faster than about any mod you can make to a H-D big twin and it handles and stops and is more comfortable than you'd ever believe - stock.

I ride Harleys for a different riding sensation and it's mostly about the motor and how the bike is laid out. I don't feel I need to unduly compromise my safety and enjoyment of riding my Harley because of poor brakes.

Back to the OP's question, the potential of dual discs stopping better than a single disc is there. If a cruiser stops better than other forms of bikes then that is a great start.

Now we've got cruisers stopping better. Within the cruiser community will a dual disc stop better? Considering all of the things said and ultimate tire traction then by God yes if that tire traction can take it and my guess is the other than the skinny front tire bikes they can take it.

Just my opinion but I've been riding for 53 years and had about 30 bikes so far so I think I've got a pretty broad range of experience and I think I've got a ways to go so I'll be learning a few more things but I hope I don't have to unlearn more things like how to properly modulate brakes because of ABS...


Chonk

 

What part of keeping a stock brake system, if it happens to outperform many sportbike brakes in street riding, involves "skimping"? Or are some people still clinging to fantasies that their street-driven Harleys are race bikes, benefiting from brakes that will pull them down repeatedly from 160 mph? LOL

Hello, brake setups that work well for racing don't necessarily work well at all on the street. There can be some tradeoffs. For example, brake pads designed to work well at high temperatures can feel pretty slick, and give poor stopping power before they are brought up to design temperature. But if you don't mind driving around on the street, dragging the brakes all the time to keep them heated, maybe they would work OK.

It's a little like assuming that since most race bikes are making their best power over 10 thousand rpm, that's where you'll be getting the best power out of your Harley engine.

If you don't "skimp" on tires, are you running racing compound slicks on the street at all times when the roads are dry, for maximum traction and braking? And switching back and forth between those, and grooved "rain" racing tires, depending on the weather? If not, doesn't that amount to "skimping", versus the safest and and best performing setup?

Or how many of you run Y or Z rated tires, so you'll have the right tire in place whenever you drive your Harley 186 miles per hour?

 

So I went and looked at that link you shared, and the only sportbike on that list is an old 600 Ninja that isn't equipped with ABS (that's not "many sportbikes"). Then I went looking for that number for the Switchback. Turns out that 114' only happened once during the test, the rest of time it was running in the 120's.

Also, "feel" is a very important aspect of braking. Being able to get proper feedback from the bike (through the tires, suspension, and brakes) enables you to understand what is happening and allows the rider to alter braking pressure to adjust for situations. The other part, as a back to back comparison, when riding my daughter's 250 Ninja I can stop that bike rapidly with one finger on the lever, but with my Street Bob's stock brakes, I am using my entire hand and hoping it will stop because it "feels" like I am clamping two sponges down onto the rotor. "Feel" bring confidence. Again, once you ride a bike with great brakes, you won't want to stay with the stock HD brakes, ever.

And another thing, we won't ride with slicks because they aren't legal, but racing compound DOT legal tires will stick in all conditions better than a stock HD tire (unfortunately they don't make race compound tires for HDs). So, yes, I won't skimp on the stickiest, street legal, tire that will fit my Dyna.

And if anyone is living in a fantasy land, it is those people who think that just because they ride Harleys, they won't ever need the benefits of great brakes, tires, or suspension. It's kinda like saying that since I ride a Harley I won't ever crash like those sportbike riders, so I don't need to wear leather, or full face helmets, or proper gloves and boots.

As was pointed out in another post, we have people that are willing to spend thousands of dollars to gain a few ponies, but leave the brakes and suspension alone. Using your same basic logic this seems stupid. I mean, these aren't drag bikes, it's not like you're gonna have to go up against Byron Hines on Main St. The stock Harley engine components are "adequate" enough to break most speed limits, so why bother upgrading them? Sad thing, that fancy exhaust, intake, cams and computer flash do nothing to improve your safety. And, the reality is that improving the brakes, suspension and tires will actually allow you to go faster on the street than those other things on their own can.

 

i'm unreasonable. remember my very adult tantrum about the dealer not letting me custom order what i wanted.

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/dyna-...-m-stupid.html

 

Sounds like you've gotten really confused, or somehow wound up on a different page than the one I actually linked to. I count four sportbikes, and no 600 Ninja at all. Others can check for themselves, and see what they find:
http://www.motorcycle-vermont.com/th...king-distance/

As far as ABS goes, that particular test doesn't address that. If you'd like more information on braking with ABS versus without, highly experienced riders under planned and non-emergency situations can often get shorter stopping distances without ABS, than with. Not always though, and it can vary with conditions. Here are results of one test (although ABS on newer bikes may be able to do better):

"In 2003, the U.S. Department of
Transportation, National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration (NHTSA) in cooperation
with Transport Canada (TC) conducted a
motorcycle brake research project. The
objective of this testing program was to assess
the effectiveness of anti-lock braking systems
(ABS) and combined brake systems (CBS) on
motorcycles using various braking maneuvers
and loading conditions.

Testing was performed with six motorcycles,
representing the dual-purpose, sport, and sport
touring segments for motorcycles. The
following motorcycles were used in the tests:
1. 2002 Honda VFR 800 with ABS & CBS
2. 2002 BMW F650 with ABS
3. 2002 BMW R 1150R with ABS & CBS
4. 2002 BMW R 1150R without ABS or CBS
5. 2004 Yamaha FJR1300 with ABS
6. 2004 Yamaha FJR1300 without ABS

The closing data table:



Lots of other tests too. It would be nice if you started looking them up for yourself.

That's quite a claim! Fact is that I've ridden many different brands with many different types of brakes, and I'm satisfied staying with the stock brakes on both my current Harleys. Of course, I happen to be more interested in actual brake performance, than placebo effect.

 

Here's the info that comes up on the page you link when I click it:

2012 Aprilia 1200 Dorsoduro
Hypermotard
111.1 ft
2012 Harley Davidson Dyna Switchback
Cruiser
114.0 ft
2010 Ducati Multistrada 1200S without ABS
Adventure bike
114.3 ft
2011 Honda CB1000R
Naked Sport Standard
114.5 ft
2009 Triumph Street Triple R
Naked Sport Standard
114.6 ft
2012 Kawasaki Ninja 650
Sport
115.6 ft
2011 Ducati Monster 796
Naked Sport Standard
117.4 ft
2012 Harley Sportster 72
Cruiser
120.7 ft
2004 Honda GL1800A Gold Wing
Touring Bike
121.1 ft
2012 Triumph Tiger without ABS
Adventure bike
121.3 ft
2005 BMW K1200 LT
Touring Bike
121.6 ft
2013 Victory Judge
Cruiser
123.6 ft
2012 Triumph Tiger with ABS
Adventure bike
127.6 ft
2010 Suzuki DR-Z400S
Dual Sport
129.7 ft
2012 Suzuki DL650 V-Strom
Dual-Sport, Adventure
132.4 ft
2011 Husqvarna TE449
Dual sport
136.3
2013 Triumph Truxton
Standard
136.5 ft
2010 Ducati Multistrada 1200S
With ABS
Adventure bike
158.0 ft
2012 Ural Gear-Up
Sidecar
191.5 ft

And here is the quote from the article on the Switchback:

"Our test unit posted extraordinary 60–0 stopping distances, shattering our previous experiences with H-D’s ABS, recording a best stop of just over 114' and the majority under 120'."

The 114' was an anomaly. And I bet if you were to ask anyone who tests motorcycles, including those at "Motorcycle Consumer News", they would tell you that making upgrades to brakes is the best investment you can make to any bike.

And as far as ABS is concerned, you might want to educate yourself on modern ABS systems, rather than the outdated info. you gave. A lot has happened with ABS tech in the 13 years since the study you show was conducted. Modern ABS systems don't just monitor tire slippage, but also can monitor lean angles, side-to-side as well as front-to-back. They can sense how much weight transfer is happening as well as suspension compression. So, yeah, in the old days ABS was not as good as a very well trained racer, but that isn't the case any more.

 

LOL, I'm still counting 4 sportbikes (versus the 1 you claimed), and NO 600 Ninja. Maybe you meant to say a 650 Ninja?

The 114' was no more of an anomaly than the stopping distances reported for all the other bikes. It's not unusual to highlight the shortest stopping distance achieved during testing, because getting the best out of each bike involves a learning process, so many of the stops during that learning process will be duds, or won't represent the best the bike can do. The shortest stopping distance achieved is the one that's considered representative of what the bike is capable of.

However, if most of the stops on the Harley fell into a 6 foot range, even as the rider was going through the process of becoming familiarized with the bike, I'd say that's an indication that the brakes provided not only excellent braking (as comparing the numbers from the bikes in the test shows), but also a good degree of consistency and user-friendliness.

 

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I have to say that going from the Single Disc to the Dual Disc ABS on the Dyna Low Rider S was strange for the first 100 miles while it wore in. I had to slam on them yesterday and ILL NEVER GO BACK to the single!! They really do make a difference and once your used to the feel you will be glad to have them.