2016 Swithback Engine Mods, Conservative
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Tourer
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 250
Likes: 54
From: Arlington, TX
2016 Switchback Engine Mods, Conservative
After reading extensively on this Forum and considering the below quotation from another thread, I've arrived at the following configuration for my 2016 Switchback: (1)Vance and Hines Twin Slash Round Slip On, (2) Screaming Eagle intake, (3) Stock two into one header, with cat removed, and (4) Vance and Hines Fuelpak 66005. So......it sounds like I've got a set up that will work as the stock header (obviously) uses the oxygen sensors in the stock location. In discussing the matter with a Vance and Hines Tech, I was told to use the Pro Pipe configuration with my Fuelpak. I developed this combo after extensive reading on the Forum which was VERY helpful and would appreciate any further remarks about what I've come up with. Thank You
@McCoy- Everything that tech's told you is correct. This is not the first time that we have experienced runability issues with exhaust systems that do not have the O2 sensors properly placed. Both the alternatives that were suggested to you eliminate your stock O2 sensors. Yes, PC does this, however, PV will not. PC does this because the ADV's have a lot more power than you think and can skew the O2 readings to the point of effecting your rideability. The PC is pulse width interceptor and modifier unlike the PV. This is why they would recommend that. Other exhaust manufacturers have not changed their O2 sensor placement from the J1850 bikes because the cost of tooling revisions. This why they just include adapters and say your good. We are still the only brand that used the "Super Bung" technology. We understood that O2 placement from 2007 would not work on 2016 bikes. Exhaust technology must advance like the tuning technology on the bike. This is the advantage we have by manufacturing the exhaust, air cleaners and fuel management.
Now, some individuals have not had issues with the same exhaust and setup. However, each rider's expectations/experiences are different. We can definitely accommodate your setup. It may take some more information on your part as to what issues you are having other than just poor MPG. AutoTune may still be used with your current O2 placement, but may take longer. It is something that we will need to watch closely as you acquire data. You stated that you did AutoTune for 108 miles, but that may not have been enough. That is why I would have liked to see the AutoTune grid population before making conclusions. You can also upload that map and we could have seen the changes that AutoTune had did and if it was doing the proper changes to your map.
We are also currently working on a way for riders to eliminate O2 sensors without having a check engine and not having something physically plugging into the harness either. With a little patience and feedback, we can get you tuned in right. Send me an email to cneely@vanceandhines.com and we will start with uploading your current map and see what AutoTune did to your VE tables.
Now, some individuals have not had issues with the same exhaust and setup. However, each rider's expectations/experiences are different. We can definitely accommodate your setup. It may take some more information on your part as to what issues you are having other than just poor MPG. AutoTune may still be used with your current O2 placement, but may take longer. It is something that we will need to watch closely as you acquire data. You stated that you did AutoTune for 108 miles, but that may not have been enough. That is why I would have liked to see the AutoTune grid population before making conclusions. You can also upload that map and we could have seen the changes that AutoTune had did and if it was doing the proper changes to your map.
We are also currently working on a way for riders to eliminate O2 sensors without having a check engine and not having something physically plugging into the harness either. With a little patience and feedback, we can get you tuned in right. Send me an email to cneely@vanceandhines.com and we will start with uploading your current map and see what AutoTune did to your VE tables.
Last edited by Mac-427; Feb 4, 2017 at 06:34 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 273
From: Minnesota
Looks like you made some good choices.
I too scoured this forum for info (for months) dissecting variables, reading reviews, gleaning experienced results.
There is no "one best" choice, several configurations look good and function much the same. What matters is using the info properly and make your personal choices..
Now the problem;
The forum will tell you to dump the FP3 and get a Power Commander!
I too scoured this forum for info (for months) dissecting variables, reading reviews, gleaning experienced results.
There is no "one best" choice, several configurations look good and function much the same. What matters is using the info properly and make your personal choices..
Now the problem;
The forum will tell you to dump the FP3 and get a Power Commander!
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 632
Likes: 85
Looks like you made some good choices.
I too scoured this forum for info (for months) dissecting variables, reading reviews, gleaning experienced results.
There is no "one best" choice, several configurations look good and function much the same. What matters is using the info properly and make your personal choices..
Now the problem;
The forum will tell you to dump the FP3 and get a Power Commander!
I too scoured this forum for info (for months) dissecting variables, reading reviews, gleaning experienced results.
There is no "one best" choice, several configurations look good and function much the same. What matters is using the info properly and make your personal choices..
Now the problem;
The forum will tell you to dump the FP3 and get a Power Commander!
Be careful about taking advice. People get bought-in to various engines and upgrades and think that everyone should do the same as they did - often at great financial outlay.
I have written about a very economical upgrade that I recently made to my 2012 96" FXD. Part of the mix was a V&H FP3 and I am very satisfied with it. I love the smart phone interface and the ease of use for the Auto Tune feature.
As V&H says, the FP3 may not technically be as comprehensive in effect as a full dyno tune etc but it is very close. My engine runs very nicely with no glitches and a very linear power curve. For $300, I am very satisfied.
The only factor that I would offer for the OP to consider is a cam set change. Changing cams is not a complicated or expensive operation and it can offer a significant boost in performance.
I installed a set of SE204 cams in my 103 upgrade motor. It pulls great in low RPM's but also does not run out of steam as quickly as the stock cam set up in the higher rev ranges.
Last edited by leafman60; Feb 5, 2017 at 07:55 AM.
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 65
From: Calgary AB
Just about exactly what I have on my '14 Switchback.
I like the combination of the catless head pipe and Twin Slash slip on. Loud enough when you get on it, but really nice for highway riding. I'm sure there is more HP/TQ to be had with a full 2-1 system, but at a higher cost and louder.
I used the SE air cleaner kit that fits under the stock cover.
I did change cams in mine, to SE255s, but I think your HO cams are similar?
I can't remember what I used for the initial flash on the FP3. After the cam change I ran the snot out of it while Autotuning to propogate as many of the fields as I could. I then took it in for Dyno tuning. The autotune was extremely close to what they dialled in on the dyno.
I like the combination of the catless head pipe and Twin Slash slip on. Loud enough when you get on it, but really nice for highway riding. I'm sure there is more HP/TQ to be had with a full 2-1 system, but at a higher cost and louder.
I used the SE air cleaner kit that fits under the stock cover.
I did change cams in mine, to SE255s, but I think your HO cams are similar?
I can't remember what I used for the initial flash on the FP3. After the cam change I ran the snot out of it while Autotuning to propogate as many of the fields as I could. I then took it in for Dyno tuning. The autotune was extremely close to what they dialled in on the dyno.
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 632
Likes: 85
I can't remember what I used for the initial flash on the FP3. After the cam change I ran the snot out of it while Autotuning to propogate as many of the fields as I could. I then took it in for Dyno tuning. The autotune was extremely close to what they dialled in on the dyno.
Thank you for that valuable information.
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 632
Likes: 85
The HO cans are sorta similar to the 255 but they have a significant different lift and some timing changes.
Check out this helpful chart. You can also see the curves of the various SE cams and why I chose the 204 for my application.
Also, the 204's do not need compression releases for stock pistons and heads. Some of the mostly low end cams like the 255 have durations and timing that create a situation where compression releases are necessary.
For the chart:
Black = Stock 103HO Cams
Orange = SE204 Cams
Yellow = SE254E
Blue = SE255
Green = SE259E
Purple = SE585
http://www.harley-davidson.com/app-c...ison_Chart.pdf
.
Last edited by leafman60; Feb 5, 2017 at 10:37 AM.
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 65
From: Calgary AB
I wasn't suggesting the OP look at a cam change, I was suggesting with my cam change I'm a closer comparison to his HO than a stock '14 would be.
BTW, his '16 should have auto compression releases.
BTW, his '16 should have auto compression releases.
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 632
Likes: 85
However, wasn't 2014 the year H-D went to the HO cams??
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