opinions are like aholes. everybodys got one
New chip needed for stage 1?
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 1
From: Backwoods of NH
RE: New chip needed for stage 1?
ORIGINAL: rewog
jeffbcn, the Stage I download(150.00-download and 30 min. labor for mine) is calibrated only for SE AC and street legal MoCo slip-ons! I'm running SE II's and still have some popping on decel. So due to the fact that it is still running lean(download is EPA compliant ), I have chosen to go to a fuel management system. 200.00+ wasted
jeffbcn, the Stage I download(150.00-download and 30 min. labor for mine) is calibrated only for SE AC and street legal MoCo slip-ons! I'm running SE II's and still have some popping on decel. So due to the fact that it is still running lean(download is EPA compliant ), I have chosen to go to a fuel management system. 200.00+ wasted
The download for stage 1 is only sorta close for any other pipes +/or intake system. My experience with V&H Short Shots and SE Stage 1 intake w/K&N filter was that the engine still ran much too lean with the download. You're better off with some type of fuel management system once you go away from the Moco street legal SE pipes/intake - but I'm not getting into which one here - too many threads already for that - just remember you get what you pay for! And a dyno tune from a good tuner is the best way to get the most out of your set up and insure your engine is spot on - better for performance and longevity IMO.
Banned
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 953
Likes: 1
From: underground
RE: New chip needed for stage 1?
i didnt say they must get a pc111. i said i have one because the stage one download dosnt come even close to performing like apc111.your blasting pc111 because u havnt tried one,dont know the difference,or just full of sh11111t
Supporter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,788
Likes: 5,625
From: along the shore of Mishigami
RE: New chip needed for stage 1?
here's my take on all of this. If the dealer does a reflash all he is doing is bringing the fuel mix a little rich but still staying E.P.A. compliant lean. A fuel optimizer can be dialed in to lenghten the injector firing pulse thus adding more fuel. APCIII type set up can adjust timing, fuel mix (via injectors)and some can adjust fuel delivery between the cylinders. The way I see it is depending on what one is going after depends on what one needs. Stage 1 only maybe a fuel optimizer, a stage 2 and upa PCIII or a equivalent product. just my 2 cents.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 2
From: By the "Betty water and the Wire"
RE: New chip needed for stage 1?
ORIGINAL: Blaster
HK - Thanks, that is my point. The download is all that is needed for an A/C and slip ons. Yet every time someone posts this question the answers always come back that they "might as well" get a PCIII or some other fuel management system when it is not required. Ever wonder why it's a PCIII. What happened to the PC and PCII. My bet is that they had to update them because they didn't work right. I wouldn't have a clue how to determine what air/fuel ratio is needed for every rpm/load combination that my bike will be subjected to. So why not leave it to the people that designed it. If you make further changes to the motor then yes, get a fuel manager, but not for just a stage 1.
HK - Thanks, that is my point. The download is all that is needed for an A/C and slip ons. Yet every time someone posts this question the answers always come back that they "might as well" get a PCIII or some other fuel management system when it is not required. Ever wonder why it's a PCIII. What happened to the PC and PCII. My bet is that they had to update them because they didn't work right. I wouldn't have a clue how to determine what air/fuel ratio is needed for every rpm/load combination that my bike will be subjected to. So why not leave it to the people that designed it. If you make further changes to the motor then yes, get a fuel manager, but not for just a stage 1.
BTW, when you get a PCIII they show you the secret handshake and we get put on commision......................................... .............
[sm=joke.gif]
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
RE: New chip needed for stage 1?
Originally the guy was asking about the 150.00 download and the hundred dollar chip.For just a little morehe can install a pcIII witha map preloaded for his configuration.I installed mine and it is very simple.I probably would have gone with a pcIII even if I would have kept my 05 stock because of how lean it was from the factory.It ran very hot because of the leanness.Immediately after I put the pcIII onI could tell the difference.It just seems like a no brainer to me.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,874
Likes: 8
From: Earth
RE: New chip needed for stage 1?
ORIGINAL: jeffbcn
Stopped by the Dealer yesterday. I wanted to thank the salesman who sold me my bike. (It was my first motorcycle at 55 yrs old) Tpld him I shoulda done it years ago. Anyway, he asked me what changes I was making and showed him. I told him that after the new year I was going to Stage 1 it. I want V & H slipons and aK & N but I wasn't sure what kind of fuel magement system yet.I asked him if they could do the download and how much. He told me about &150 for the download and about $100.00 for the "chip". This is the first time I have heard anything about a chip being necessary.
Was he yanking my chain?
Stopped by the Dealer yesterday. I wanted to thank the salesman who sold me my bike. (It was my first motorcycle at 55 yrs old) Tpld him I shoulda done it years ago. Anyway, he asked me what changes I was making and showed him. I told him that after the new year I was going to Stage 1 it. I want V & H slipons and aK & N but I wasn't sure what kind of fuel magement system yet.I asked him if they could do the download and how much. He told me about &150 for the download and about $100.00 for the "chip". This is the first time I have heard anything about a chip being necessary.
Was he yanking my chain?
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Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 993
Likes: 1
From: Southern California
RE: New chip needed for stage 1?
ORIGINAL: badwhine
The only chip I know of is a chip in the paint. H-D does have software downloads for specific accy combinations but none for aftermarket combinations. Get a A/F readout on the dynobefore spending money on downloads etc.... And stop asking a salesman for technical advice. Get to know the service guys.
ORIGINAL: jeffbcn
Stopped by the Dealer yesterday. I wanted to thank the salesman who sold me my bike. (It was my first motorcycle at 55 yrs old) Tpld him I shoulda done it years ago. Anyway, he asked me what changes I was making and showed him. I told him that after the new year I was going to Stage 1 it. I want V & H slipons and aK & N but I wasn't sure what kind of fuel magement system yet.I asked him if they could do the download and how much. He told me about &150 for the download and about $100.00 for the "chip". This is the first time I have heard anything about a chip being necessary.
Was he yanking my chain?
Stopped by the Dealer yesterday. I wanted to thank the salesman who sold me my bike. (It was my first motorcycle at 55 yrs old) Tpld him I shoulda done it years ago. Anyway, he asked me what changes I was making and showed him. I told him that after the new year I was going to Stage 1 it. I want V & H slipons and aK & N but I wasn't sure what kind of fuel magement system yet.I asked him if they could do the download and how much. He told me about &150 for the download and about $100.00 for the "chip". This is the first time I have heard anything about a chip being necessary.
Was he yanking my chain?
I don't think I will go past a Stage 1 using V & H slipons and K & N except possibly fullpipes some day.In light of that, I thought I might save a little money by just getting a download. If I can't get by with that I've been thinking about the V & H system since I will probably upgrade to their full pipeseventually. I just reasearched PC III on ebay and found one for under $300.00. When I get ready to put it all together I will research again. And ask again.I'm pretty well decided on pipes and a/c, just need to nail down fuel management.
Thanks to all who responded, good info.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,378
Likes: 1
From: Boise, Idaho
RE: New chip needed for stage 1?
if you're changing to a high flow AC and aftermarket pipes or non-EPA slip-ons, save your money and get a fuel management system (SERT, PC, etc.) The download won't do it for you. You really risk running the AFR too lean.
