After reading all this all I can say is.......

Damn I'm glad I have a carbed scoot........

Respects,
Ed

 

Same

rip the FI off and go carb!

IMHO

 

For coastrider,"Why can't anything ever be simple?" Carb bikes were pretty simple, but the EPA didn't like them very much.

 

Here's the classic article on why EFI bikes (06 Dyna, 07-08 all) need to be recalibrated when you change air intake and pipes.

https://www.hdforums.com/m_181817/tm.htm

Sandhog above says 08 ECM can adjust to air intake changes by itself. News to me, but I can't rule it out from my own knowledge. 06 Dynas and all 07 Big Twins had narrow band O2 sensors that were only good for trimming fuel in a very limited range. I haven't heard that the 08s are any different. For what it's worth, some people claimed that 06 and 07s could adjust, and that wasn't true.

 

Dyna,I have an 06 Wide Glide and changed the pipes and air cleaner.I bought the SERT when I bought the bike because I cant keep things stock very long,so i bit the bulllet right away.
As for the 07 and 08 bikes,that info i got from American Iron magazine in one of thier buildupsinthe June issue(Now on stands)
They say and I quote"After we'd installed the Caliber system and given the self adjusting stockECM time to recalibrate itself,we did a series of dyno runs"
It goes on to say that they theninstalled a "Rapid Bike"module that seems simular to the PCIII.
Dyno results as follows
Baseline run with Doherty Power Pacc Max power 83.31=Max torque 98.26
Power pacc and Sampson exhaust Max Power 86.21=Max torque 101.30

Dyno 2
Power pacc and Rapid Bike Max power 84.23=Max torque 101.6
Power pacc,Sampson,Rapid Max Power 86.10=Max torque 105.44

I just took it for granted that it was OK to run it without any recalibration other than what the ECM would do itself.The article caught my eye because I had to buy the sert when I did my changes.

As to the benifits of the fuel injection over the carb,I have an 84 FXRS thats built a bit(LOL)
I still havent got the carb exact as it still stumbles off idle just a touch,and I cant get it out.Ive rebuilt the carb once and changed a multitude of jets and made adjustments all to hell with no luck.The bike runs like a raped ape,but still has that tick where it seems to cough.
With the SERT and fuel injection,I just hook up the laptop and tune er in.
Im permently scarred on my right hand from tuning themixture screws on the mukuni carb from buring them on the SuperTrapp 2/1 stainless pipe.Im too old for that **** now.

 

+1 everything I have read says 08 still has narrow band 02 sensor

 

They work great on my 06,

this is by far the best bang for the buck


good luck

 

I see the mention by Chris Maida of "the self-adjusting stock ECM" on page 164 of June's AIM. Don't know what to say. I'd feel better if Donny Peterson (Techline in the same mag) had said it. I have the 2007 SERT manual and I have combed it high and low for a mention of an ability to self-adjust or learn or remember settings, and cannot find one. What it does say, on page 11, is the following: "... the ECM is the brain of the ESPFI system. And, like our own brain, it has memories and it makes decisions. The ECM memories are located in Look-up tables ..."

Lookup tables are static data burned into the ECM by a tool like the SERT. Not learned on the fly.

 

So here's the follow-up on page 34 of the July 2008 AIM where Chris says:

"... when we installed this kit on our 2007 test bagger, the stock ECM was able to adjust for it and keep the fuel/air mixture right at the H-D and EPA-dictated ratios after being run for about 10 minutes. No fuel adjustor was needed for this particular bike and upgrade. As for the air/fuel chart, though we didn't print it we definitely checked it. In fact, we had a fuel adjustor on hand, but, as our S&S contact told us, we didn't need to use it."

The letter that Chris was answering quoted Dr. Dyno from a past article, which I do remember reading, as saying "that about half of all Twin Cam Harley engines are rich enough from the factory, and do not need fuel changes for a pipe and air cleaner upgrade."

So what have I learned? (1) There's apparently enough variation from one [identical] bike to another that some of them come from the factory running quite rich, so rich that an increase in air flow does not force an absolute lean condition. (2) That you can't know unless you chart the air/fuel ratio (dyno run) of your particular bike. (3) Since most of us consider the "H-D and EPA-dictated ratios" to be lean to start with, it should still be recommended to adjust for a more generous fuel supply when upgrading to higher flowing air cleaner and pipes.

 

I agree with the carb guys!!!!
What was wrong with carbs?
There are only 2, count em, 2 cylinders!

And the carbs out there are so totally tunable,
for economy (50+), or power (100+),
or a combination!

And jets are a wee bit less expensive that SERTs, XIEDs, MAPs etc.

Go carburated, and spend the difference on BEER. IMHO