Why do I need a power commander
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Stage III
Joined: Apr 2010
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Why do I need a power commander
I am upgrading my pipes on my new bike, which is a 2010 Wide Glide. If the bike is fuel injected and can sense a too rich or lean situation and can compensate for it, then why do I need to upgrade the fuel computer and intake when changing pipes. I do understand that I get more performance by doing that but I am not concerned about performance just looks and I want some noise.
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The stock FI system has a certain "window" in which it can adjust the fuel mixture dependent upon changes. Changes in temperature, altitude and air pressure are easily within this window. A pipe change without intake is borderline, it may be able to compensate or it may end up being slightly lean and pop and back fire. Changing intake with pipes puts you squarely outside the window; the system will not have the ability to introduce enough fuel to compensate for the additional air flow. It is all in the programming and not the actual injectors. So you can either pay Harley for a different map which basically changes the "window" or get a Power Commander. Again, this is usually only necessary with an aftermarket intake that flows more air.
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Stage III
Joined: Apr 2010
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How much is the program from Harley? Hey Zig Zag, that looks like a 2010 wide glide, what pipes are thoes, they look awesome?? I live in a state that is not very "loud pipe frendly" so I have to be a little careful. How lous are they?
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2010
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I've had friends complain about popping and backfire when swapping out stock pipes and not doing the FI re-map.. I would just bring it to a shop and have them do it for the 100-150..forget what they charged me.. but its cheaper than buying a power commander.. im sure they'll also recommend at least the stage I air cleaner as well..
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Grapevine Texas
I believe the program your talking about is when you do a exhaust pipe and air cleaner or intake upgrade you are going stage 1, so they, meaning hd, programs or flashes your ecm computer with a new fuel map richening things up a little bit more so you won't run as lean or as hot. HD is gonna no matter what though, make you run a little lean which translates into a little hot, because they have to keep the epa/tree huggers happy and not put out too big of a carbon footprint which could cause polar bear nutritional stress, decrease in sex drive and slowly lower the population, which hd would be liable for in a lawsuit so, the morale of that is they are gonna put a lean, not necessarily mean, but lean map in your ecm, and I think that runs couple hundra bucks for them to do it.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,678
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From: Brooklyn, NY
Performance makes ya both Good and LOUD!!!
I am upgrading my pipes on my new bike, which is a 2010 Wide Glide. If the bike is fuel injected and can sense a too rich or lean situation and can compensate for it, then why do I need to upgrade the fuel computer and intake when changing pipes. I do understand that I get more performance by doing that but I am not concerned about performance just looks and I want some noise.
if your solely gonna do the pipes....No, PC-V's and the sort in my research and understanding, arent necessary.
Mods such as this are handled by your existing ECM, and the O2 sensors are capable enuff.
**** Mind you, if your gonna remove the O2 sensors then you should consider remapping your ECM, if not your probably gonna get a few trouble codes on your computer. Luckily enuff, alot of aftermarket pipes come with o2 fittings to accomadate.
Ih8, you inferred that you're concerned about looks and noise, and willing to sacrifice performance. I would reconsider your position on that... Its one thing to look good and sound good, but if your Ride performs badly, your gonna look and sound good all the way back to the mechanics lift.
Most Pipes can effect performance, as well as Sound and looks, the Key is to find that happy median tween the both.
You can meet your goal of all three with the right amount of research.
dont take our word for it, contact the manufacturers directly. theyre not rocket scientists, but im sure they have way better answers than just this Thread.
Start with Fuel Moto. those guys there are fantastic, and knowledgeable.
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From: Kalaui Kona HI
The stage one download from HD is lean also. I would take the advice of the CRZYLGZZ and get some more info and he is right on with the performance comment. You also might look into V&H and go with the fuelpak system. If you let more air into the equation ie stage 1 you need to flash or program the ECM.
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From: Corporate States of America
Thanks ih8towork, They are V.& H. big shots with the straight end caps.
I have the standard baffles and they are a little loud. There is another thread currently discussing the different baffles for the big shots. V.& H. makes a quiet baffle also.
I really like the pipes, they sound good,were an easy install, and fit and finish is excellent. I would recommend them.
I have the standard baffles and they are a little loud. There is another thread currently discussing the different baffles for the big shots. V.& H. makes a quiet baffle also.
I really like the pipes, they sound good,were an easy install, and fit and finish is excellent. I would recommend them.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2009
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The stock FI system has a certain "window" in which it can adjust the fuel mixture dependent upon changes. Changes in temperature, altitude and air pressure are easily within this window. A pipe change without intake is borderline, it may be able to compensate or it may end up being slightly lean and pop and back fire. Changing intake with pipes puts you squarely outside the window; the system will not have the ability to introduce enough fuel to compensate for the additional air flow. It is all in the programming and not the actual injectors. So you can either pay Harley for a different map which basically changes the "window" or get a Power Commander. Again, this is usually only necessary with an aftermarket intake that flows more air.
A PCIII or PCV is always guessing, using no stinking A/F feedback. They can't adapt from one fuel to another unless you add the costly auto tune options. A Fuel Pack adds a bit more fuel to what the ECU calls for, but the ECU retains its adaptability.
The OP won't need to change the ECU program or add a tuner for pipes or breather, regardless. After a significant free flow A/F change, most riders want to tune for better throttle response, smoother running, power. Riders may want to tune after a pipe change to tune out decel pops. But riders don't need to do anything.... just ride...
Last edited by ColdCase; Apr 16, 2010 at 12:54 PM.