I bought a new 2010 FXDC last Month and I popped into my local Hardly Dangerous dealership Saturday to pick up a part I'd ordered. Figured, while I was there I'd ask a general question.

"If I put on some V&H Twin Slash Slip-Ons and a SE A/C, how much is it to do the Stage 1 Computer flash (or whatever they do to it)?"

The Service Writer I was talking to was busy. The whole Service Department was busy as a set of jumper cables at a Honda Convention.

So the Service Writer kinda goes off a little bit and tells me that the Stage 1 burn (whatever) is only for the A/C and if I add free-breathing pipes, I have to go with the SERT. For $470 plus another (minimum) $200 for dyno time. Plus tax.

I get the distinct impression that the Service Department at most of the dealerships don't understand their own Fuel Injection system. And maybe it's not their fault.

Harley decided to go with an antiquated, backwards, ignorant speed-density system from General Maintenance (Delphi is -- or was -- Part of GM, right?) when they probably could have teamed with somebody else and done Mass Air. But that would have made sense.

Or maybe, it's not Harley's fault. Maybe the EPA strong-armed them into doing it the way it's being done.

So just to get the bike to sound right, and run right while it's doing it, we gotta re-invent the freaking wheel.

Unreal.

Needless to say, the dealership Service Department is off my Christmas Card list and I'll be re-inventing the wheel all by myself. I keep hearing good things about the PC V but not sure it's worth the hassle. Maybe the Fuelpak. Don't know fer sure.

Aggravating.

 

They're just trying to up-sell you something.

The stage 1 download is ~$150. The Sert...several times more.

 

Welcome to the club, Newb ...

Yep, an incremental $670 will buy ya ...?

I'd do a little more research before droppin' that coin ... unless it's just burnin' a hole in your pocket ....

While the SERT may be a good thing to have, not sure you really need $200 of dyno tuning with just a SE A/C and slip ons ....

In fact, the closed loop ECM that comes stock should be able to 'assimilate' your current mods without any further action required (in the form of spending money that is) ....

The ECM will sense additional air and automatically adjust the fuel to 'revert' to the stock AFR setting ... therefore allowing your bike to run properly ....

If you want to 'optimize' your bike for max torque and power given your new setup, that will take some additional tuning (via PowerCommander V (PCV), Fuel Pak, TTS Master Tune, Thunder Max, etc.) .... NOTE: many of these fine products will allow you to SWAG your initial setting to a '95%' solution ... i.e. a fuel AFR MAP that has been shown to be optimal given your A/C and pipe combination ....

Good luck,

R/
'Chop

 

My dealership wants $160.

Maybe youre right. You probably are, but from what I've read on this fine Forum, the Stage 1 Computer dealio is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.

See, I don't wanna go fast. If I did, I'd buy a Japanese bike for half the money and wear a Darth Vader Helmet.

I like the look of the stock pipes, they're okay. But after I ride it for a little bit I get tired of hearing the engine noises and not the exhaust that makes a Harley so unique.

I also have recurring dreams of me driving it into a swimming pool. That's what it sounds like. Like it's underwater or sumpthin.

Hell, I'd even forego the SE A/C and do just the pipes. But the dealership is saying the Computer flash is for the A/C and NOT for the pipes.

 

OP, you have some of it right and some of it, who really knows. First off, the computer is restricted to a certain air/fuel ration because of EPA regs, not because it's a chitty computer or because HD wants to sell you on something else. It already runs on the lean side because of all that. At best, a reflash will modify the bike to run at the same a/f ratio with the higher flowing components. Many think that is good enough and opinions vary greatly, not only from 1 dealer to the next but also in magazine articles and even on this site. You can walk into one dealer and they will sell you on the screamin eagle stage 1 download (reflash) and tell you it's all you need. Walk into the next and they will tell you that you need a Power Commander unit and possibly even a dyno-tune. Go to the next one and they will try to sell you a Vance and Hines fuelpak and yet another will tell you you need a SERT and possibly a dyno-tune. Hell, you might even find one that will tell you that you don't need anything because the computer will adjust itself to whatever you install. In the end, you have to make up your own mind. There have been tons of posts on this subject on this forum over the past couple of years that will probably leave you more confused than informed, but the info is there in any case.

I don't think anyone can dispute, however, that if you get a programmable tuner like a SERT or Power Commander and have a knowledgable, professional tuner put it on a dyno and dial it in for you, you can't go wrong. Is it overkill? Up to you to decide. Maybe better overkill than underkill. I just went with the plug-program-n-play fuelpak with my V&H's pipes and have been happy with it. Others think the FP is a piece of junk. But I decided that I needed something added to handle the stage 1 components certainly above the stock ECM, and probably above the SE download as well. Some people have reported that getting the download and throwing on a set if xIED's has worked well for them. But you can't dyno-tune with a fuelpak, nor can you with the xIED's and/or the SE download. I wasn't trying to get mine perfect - just wanted it to run well with what I had installed - and it does.

 

That's sort of true. The conventional wisdom is that it doesn't matter if you put pipes on that can flow more air out if you are unable to flow more air in. Therefore, with the same amount of air coming in, the air/fuel ratio doesn't need to be adjusted.

However, I'd highly recommend the a/c as well along with something (read post above) to tweak the a/f ratio because it will run better, sound better, and run cooler. Flow more air into an already lean running motor and it won't be good over the long term.

 

Interested in your opinion.

Thank you.

 

dude, just do the pipes. if the a/c cover looks good to you, no need to change it. Get the pipes you want, the efi will compensate. In the future, maybe you will want a new style a/c or just want to replace the stock air filter with a K&N made for the stock air box. Either way you'll be just fine with slipons or a new system. Of course, you could have a little decell pop, but, that's still ok as long as you don't mind it.

 

Just keep in mind that the absolute best your stock ECM settings will do, is adjust to the new components at the factory defined, EPA restrained, already lean air/fuel ratio. You live in South Florida and have already invested in an oil cooler. Investing in something to richen up your a/f mix would probably help as well and give some peace of mind. If I didn't do anything else, and I trusted that the factory ECM will adjust for the new parts as "some" claim that it will, I'd at least throw some xIED's on it. All they do is fool your ECM into adding a little more fuel to the mix. That's basically all a fuelpak does except you program it based on the type of a/c and brand/model pipes you have so it is a little more specific.

 

Thanks for your opinion on the subject. It matters. And you're right, ultimately it is my decision in the end. I'm willing to do what's necessary but I'm not a beleiver in big-time overkill either.

I've even had a professional wrench tell me that's it's okay to do one or the other (A/C or pipes) before delving into the dark world of add-on tuners. I personally -- Just don't know.

I'm leaning more toward your position on the Fuelpak. Not that SURFOR's opinion doesn't matter -- It does. Just that I have some time before I do anything and I'm being something of a pain-in-the-butt to try and gather all the knowledge and experience from others that I can.

ALL input is appreciated.

Thanks again.