I know most likely this question has been asked before.

I am totally confussed.

Have a 04 Dyna Lowrider FI with SE slip ons and they did a down load when they installed and AC.

Now am thinking about going with the V&H Big Shots but this is where I am confussed.

1. Someone that ride a Duce instlled V&H Big Shots and no other downloads and runs great.

2. Was told that V&H sells what they call a Fuel Pack that works with those pipes. (Approx. 250.00 )

3. Then someone else says to go with the PC III ( Price ? )

4. Now someone else says to go with a Race Tuner ( Expensive ) and dyno tune. But as I understand the Race Tuner will errase everything on my chip and Harley Warrenty will be void.

Any advise??????

 

Hi Barry N -

I have no experience with the fuel pack but I think it's limited to what modifications you can do to the motor before you need to buy the PC III or a race Tuner. If you're going to continue to upgrade the motor (big bore kit, cams, etc.), you should consider spending the money for the PC III or the race tuner now.

Check with your dealer about voiding any warranties by installing these componants, most dealers recommend the Race Tuner but I've seen some that only deal with the PC III.

Enjoy the Big Shots, I have a set on my bike and they're great. Great sound and performance.

Hope this helped.

 

The SERT (race tuner) will not void the warranty. My dealer wanted me to put that on at purchase of the big radius but I did not want to add that expense yet.

 

The sert and getting it dyno tuned is the only way to go. I have an 06' with a hypercharger and V&H big shots and after tuning i have 81 hp 82 ft lb of tq and a redline of 6,200 RPM. It's a monster now compared to stock.

 

Harley quoted me $900.00 with the pipes and the Fuel Pack and install. The fuel Pack is V&H part for there pipes.

The pipes and SERT will run me $1350.00 out the doors from a prerfermance shop.

Didn't get the price for pipes and PCIII.

 

I had the dealer install the Stage 1 download and I have the Big Radius pipes with no other downloads.

 

With your current download, you're probably on the fence of needing a fuel mgmt. upgrade for you bike to run properly with the V&H big shots. That $1,350 price sounds too expensive even if it is with a SERT. I happy with my PCIII, my gas mileage went down a lot when I got it, but I noticed today that it's gone back up a little.

I will say that from my reading and hearing, the BSS you want seem to have been adding the most power of any pipes over the past year or so. Most of the big numbers I've seen with the BSS has been with a SERT or PCIII though.

 

dealer d/l and fuel pac will not mix well!!!if you wan't to go with v/h fuel pac you will have to go back to stock on your ecm!!!

 

o,ya if you (need adice)you come to the right place I live in Las Vegas and know first hand!

 

What you're trying to get your head around is pretty simple. But you need to break it down a little more.

First, if you change the volumetric efficiency enough, then the mixture will be wrong. Fuel and air have to flow through the engine in the proper ratio, somewhere around 13:1-14:1. Change one, and you have to change the other to maintain the ratio. Doesn't matter if it's EFI or carb.

You've already changed your air flow from stock with pipes and air cleaner. You've also changed the fuel flow with a download. Great, now the ratio is the same as before. (don't confuse ratio with volume).

Now you want to change the pipes again. The question is, will the new pipes change the ratio enough that you have to change the fuel flow? The answer is - "Probably". You're better off planning on it.

You have a number of choices available to you. There are add on "black boxes" that intercept the signal from the ECU to the injectors and modify it. Still under control of the ECM, but modified. This includes the PCIII, V&H Tuner, and the SE Race Fueler. All the same concept. If you need more fuel at a certain range, you simply turn the dash pot.

The SE Race Tuner gives you the ability to hook a computer to your ECM and modify the fuel delivery directly. The SERT also gives you the ability to change redline, idle speed, and ignition maps. You also get data logging. When you do make fuel adjustments, they are much more accurate. But tuning is also a little more complicated because of the accuracy. A little more expensive, but a lot more capabilities - which you may or may not want.

The above products require some tuning. You can do the tuning yourself. But you need a wide band O2 sensor ($400'ish), time, and patience. Or, you can pay someone to do it on a dyno and get it done in one day. If you use one of the above, pay a tuner and be done with it, unless you plan on making more engine changes in the future. Multiple dyno tunes get expensive.

The goal of tuning, especially on the dyno, is not to see how much power the engine makes. That's just a bonus and gives you something to brag about - Americans love numbers. The goal is to get the fuel mixture just right. Unfortunatly, it's impossible to get it right for all situations. 98* at 4,500' ASL is not going to need the same fuel delivery as 55* at 11,000' ASL. Sounds like two extremes that you'll never encounter; but I have on the same day. So the mixture will be pretty close most of the time. But rarely , if ever, exactly right.

If you really want it to be accurate, you need closed loop EFI. That means O2 sensors. Before you shy away, think of it as the missing link in quality EFI. Wouldn't you like your mixture to be dead on, no matter what the conditions are? I do. You need to be looking at one of the newer add on black boxes, with closed loop operation. Terry Components is pretty popular, but I heard a rumor that S&S was making one, and there's another brand I've heard about but can't remember the name.

With these add on black boxes, they install very similar to the ones mentioned above. They splice in to the wiring harness between the ECU and the injectors, to modify the signal. The advantage is the O2 sensors tell the black box what the engine needs. It's self tuning. No dyno time, no hooking up your laptop. If you change cams next year, it will tune for that, too. It adjusts the mixture constantly as you ride, so the mixture is always right, no matter what. They are a little more expensive to buy and install. But a lot cheaper in the long run since you don't have to pay a tuner.

If my bike didn't already have closed loop, I'd be adding it.