So damned confused........
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 12
From: Missouri
OP, its pretty simple, Increase the air flow going in, and increase the air flow exiting, it runs lean, it runs really hot, it will hurt your engine in time.
he is telling you, if you have the "Stock" air cleaner on the bike still, with the short shots, your running a little leaner and a little hotter, you will be fine until you can complete stage 1...
if you have changed both the exhaust and the air cleaner and you have a motor that is breathing much better, it will be running really lean and you need to add either the SEST, or some other fuel management system and have it dyno tuned to get the proper air to fuel mix, it will run better and it will run cooler and it takes away any risk the motor will be damaged.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 12
From: Missouri
You can do any air filter or exhaust upgrade and your FI will take care of the rest. Your air/fuel ratio wont be too far from stock, that's what the oxygen sensors in a closed loop system do for you.
Don't let anybody tell you differently, I'm an auto tech with access to an exhuast air/fuel gauge used for emissions testing. I too was worried about my bike running lean because of everything i was hearing from people. Not too long after i got my 09 fxdf i checked the air/fuel ratio. At an Idle it was reading about 12.5-1, the same for revving the motor in nuetral.
Then i put on the Se stage 1 filter and backing plate and rush 2" slip ons, after letting the bike warm up I rechecked the AF ratio once again I was averaging about 12.5-1. The narrow band O2 sensors that come on our FI motorcycles tell the computer if the engine is running rich or lean, the computer then adjusts the injector pulse width to compensate.
I did, however, put Xied's from night rider on my FXDF. The xieds are resistors that plug in line with the O2 sensors. they trick the computer into giving the bike a fatter air fuel ratio. After installing these my A/F ratio was 13.5-1. Much better.
I did all these mods with less than a thousand miles on the odometer. I just rolled over 8,000 miles and havent had any issues with engine performance/ exhaust backfire, and I average 45-55mpg.
Hope this helps.
Don't let anybody tell you differently, I'm an auto tech with access to an exhuast air/fuel gauge used for emissions testing. I too was worried about my bike running lean because of everything i was hearing from people. Not too long after i got my 09 fxdf i checked the air/fuel ratio. At an Idle it was reading about 12.5-1, the same for revving the motor in nuetral.
Then i put on the Se stage 1 filter and backing plate and rush 2" slip ons, after letting the bike warm up I rechecked the AF ratio once again I was averaging about 12.5-1. The narrow band O2 sensors that come on our FI motorcycles tell the computer if the engine is running rich or lean, the computer then adjusts the injector pulse width to compensate.
I did, however, put Xied's from night rider on my FXDF. The xieds are resistors that plug in line with the O2 sensors. they trick the computer into giving the bike a fatter air fuel ratio. After installing these my A/F ratio was 13.5-1. Much better.
I did all these mods with less than a thousand miles on the odometer. I just rolled over 8,000 miles and havent had any issues with engine performance/ exhaust backfire, and I average 45-55mpg.
Hope this helps.
they key here is slip ons, you still have the same header pipe, not a high flow exhaust.
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 822
Likes: 4
From: Huntsville, AL
If you are looking at knocking down cost on a power commander and knocking out the cost of the dyno you could go with something like the V&H fuelpak.
You are not going to get tremendous amounts of gain from this, but it will solve your current problem. I have short shots with a stage 1 intake and the fuelpak and mine runs great.
Took me about 15 minutes total to install and a monkey could do it in 10. Im pleased with mine as im not planning on doing any other performance mods (at this time) and you can get the fuel pak for under 200$ at most places online. If you plan on more mods, such as cams, 103 kit, etc..then the fuelpak is not what you need, you will need to foot the bill for a PC or something along those lines.
You are not going to get tremendous amounts of gain from this, but it will solve your current problem. I have short shots with a stage 1 intake and the fuelpak and mine runs great.
Took me about 15 minutes total to install and a monkey could do it in 10. Im pleased with mine as im not planning on doing any other performance mods (at this time) and you can get the fuel pak for under 200$ at most places online. If you plan on more mods, such as cams, 103 kit, etc..then the fuelpak is not what you need, you will need to foot the bill for a PC or something along those lines.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,489
Likes: 23
From: East of Tulsa
I'm going with Mastertune TTS($424) and a mini notebook ($146.44). That way I can tune it myself. If I decide to change anything, I can tune it myself. The notebook will be useful on trips to keep me connected to the world.
For cheap the XIEDs worked great when my only mods were A/C and exhaust.
For cheap the XIEDs worked great when my only mods were A/C and exhaust.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 7
From: Southwest Florida
If you are looking at knocking down cost on a power commander and knocking out the cost of the dyno you could go with something like the V&H fuelpak.
You are not going to get tremendous amounts of gain from this, but it will solve your current problem. I have short shots with a stage 1 intake and the fuelpak and mine runs great.
Took me about 15 minutes total to install and a monkey could do it in 10. Im pleased with mine as im not planning on doing any other performance mods (at this time) and you can get the fuel pak for under 200$ at most places online. If you plan on more mods, such as cams, 103 kit, etc..then the fuelpak is not what you need, you will need to foot the bill for a PC or something along those lines.
You are not going to get tremendous amounts of gain from this, but it will solve your current problem. I have short shots with a stage 1 intake and the fuelpak and mine runs great.
Took me about 15 minutes total to install and a monkey could do it in 10. Im pleased with mine as im not planning on doing any other performance mods (at this time) and you can get the fuel pak for under 200$ at most places online. If you plan on more mods, such as cams, 103 kit, etc..then the fuelpak is not what you need, you will need to foot the bill for a PC or something along those lines.
I watched the video of some guy installing it and it looks really simple and straight forward.
Then I took the seat off my bike and looked at the space where it's supposed to go. There's no room. I mean -- NO room for anything between my seat and the Battery box, ECU, etc. Zero. No chance in HELL of me putting it where they recommend. None. I haven't checked into what's in the way. Maybe the Security system. Dunno. Don't care. But it has the look of something that says, "Don't F with me" on it.
So I read a little further and the site sez, "Later models require that you put the Fuelpak between the Battery Box and the ECU."
Great. There's no room there either. Unless the FP is 1/8" thick. Which -- I can't even get outside dimensions on the darned thing. Then there's the cables and especially, the connectors, that don't exactly look thin either.
So, if someone has some pics of how they installed their Fuelpak in a 2010 Super Glide that also has a Security system (I think maybe that's what's in the way) I would seriously appreciate a heads-up.
Like I've said before, if I wanted to go fast I'd buy a big watch and a cheap motorcycle. All I want is for the bike to run right with a Stage I A/C and pipes.
Road Master
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 822
Likes: 4
From: Huntsville, AL
Well then, you can call me Cheeta. My first plan was to use a Fuelpak. So I goes to the V&H site, check it out and decided that's what I wanted to do.
I watched the video of some guy installing it and it looks really simple and straight forward.
Then I took the seat off my bike and looked at the space where it's supposed to go. There's no room. I mean -- NO room for anything between my seat and the Battery box, ECU, etc. Zero. No chance in HELL of me putting it where they recommend. None. I haven't checked into what's in the way. Maybe the Security system. Dunno. Don't care. But it has the look of something that says, "Don't F with me" on it.
So I read a little further and the site sez, "Later models require that you put the Fuelpak between the Battery Box and the ECU."
Great. There's no room there either. Unless the FP is 1/8" thick. Which -- I can't even get outside dimensions on the darned thing. Then there's the cables and especially, the connectors, that don't exactly look thin either.
So, if someone has some pics of how they installed their Fuelpak in a 2010 Super Glide that also has a Security system (I think maybe that's what's in the way) I would seriously appreciate a heads-up.
Like I've said before, if I wanted to go fast I'd buy a big watch and a cheap motorcycle. All I want is for the bike to run right with a Stage I A/C and pipes.
I watched the video of some guy installing it and it looks really simple and straight forward.
Then I took the seat off my bike and looked at the space where it's supposed to go. There's no room. I mean -- NO room for anything between my seat and the Battery box, ECU, etc. Zero. No chance in HELL of me putting it where they recommend. None. I haven't checked into what's in the way. Maybe the Security system. Dunno. Don't care. But it has the look of something that says, "Don't F with me" on it.
So I read a little further and the site sez, "Later models require that you put the Fuelpak between the Battery Box and the ECU."
Great. There's no room there either. Unless the FP is 1/8" thick. Which -- I can't even get outside dimensions on the darned thing. Then there's the cables and especially, the connectors, that don't exactly look thin either.
So, if someone has some pics of how they installed their Fuelpak in a 2010 Super Glide that also has a Security system (I think maybe that's what's in the way) I would seriously appreciate a heads-up.
Like I've said before, if I wanted to go fast I'd buy a big watch and a cheap motorcycle. All I want is for the bike to run right with a Stage I A/C and pipes.
All the cables were easy to manuver, but still had to find room with the fuel pack itself. So, I sat on it. Literally.
After getting in there as tight as possible, and trying 100 differant ways to put the box in, i just sat in on top in the place it didnt stick up the most, and then i put the seat on and sat on it. I take the seat back off every few weeks to make sure nothing is twisted or broken, and sure enough, she looks good...
Novice
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: dallas tx
dealers dont make themselves believable when you go for a 1000 mile ck up and they put a pint too much oil in the engine. i read these stories about pipes and air cleaners regularly lot of guys dont know what to believe
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Road Master
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 779
Likes: 4
From: Upstate New York
My dealer says because it's an EFI bike. According to them, slip ons are fine but adding anything else; i.e., short shots, heavy breathers and you have to do the rest because of the lean condition that will occur. They won't even punch out the baffels on an EFI bike. Pretty good bunch of guys/gals at my hometown dealership. My fam has been doing business with them for decades and we know all of the employees and the owner on a first name basis. Also, they do dyno tunes for $100.
Most of the replies are correct. Your exhaust will not destroy your engine anytime in the near future, but a fuel management system is recommended, especially if you add a new a/c stage 1 setup. Your ECM will adjust to the new exhaust and to a more breathable a/c, but will run lean, and cause much heat, hence damage to engine over time. Plus, you will not get the full benefits of your new setup w/o the fuel/air ratio being adjusted. You can do everything yourself, even the tuning, if you have the patience to understand how everything works. Do your homework BEFORE putting your stuff together. The slip ons should not affect the overall performance by themselves. Good luck. Remember, some stealers want your money, and they'll try and take it anyway they can!!