PC-V, can I program it myself
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Stage II
Joined: Aug 2010
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PC-V, can I program it myself
I have a few questions about the PC-V, in the description it says under Programming - "pre-programmed". Does this mean that I have to tell them what I have on the bike and it comes programmed already or can I change it up myself? I thought that I would be able to program this myself but maybe I'm wrong or would need some additional stuff to hook up to a laptop,etc. Is a price of $330 seem like a decent deal on one? It seems like I always find out that I overpaid after it's too late. Had considered the Fuelpak because I know that I can program that myself, but after reading some of these postings I gathered that the PC-V is a step up possibly from the Fuelpak, and that the bike will run better with it? Or is this just a bunch of b/s? I have a set of V&H short shorts collecting dust waiting for a tuner to be installed.
Club Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,483
Likes: 39
From: Passaic County, NJ
Depends who you're buying it from.
Companies like FuelMoto will pre-load a map that closely resembles your setup so when you receive it all you need to do is install the powercommander and then go for a ride.
It will not be an optimized map for your bike. The only way to get that is to have your bike dyno-tuned.
Companies like FuelMoto will pre-load a map that closely resembles your setup so when you receive it all you need to do is install the powercommander and then go for a ride.
It will not be an optimized map for your bike. The only way to get that is to have your bike dyno-tuned.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 7
From: Southwest Florida
Depends who you're buying it from.
Companies like FuelMoto will pre-load a map that closely resembles your setup so when you receive it all you need to do is install the powercommander and then go for a ride.
It will not be an optimized map for your bike. The only way to get that is to have your bike dyno-tuned.
Companies like FuelMoto will pre-load a map that closely resembles your setup so when you receive it all you need to do is install the powercommander and then go for a ride.
It will not be an optimized map for your bike. The only way to get that is to have your bike dyno-tuned.
My understanding is that you need at least 50+ pulls on a dyno to get a decent tune. And even then, rbracing's opinion of tuning under a constant load is that it isn't always a good idea. I tend to agree.
Then there's the whole 'hardware' v. 'software' argument. I (personally) am not crazy about the idea of something tricking my ECU into thinking the motrcycle is doing something it's not.
Why take a sophisticated piece of equipment that is capable of making countless adjustments (your ECU) and virtually disable it? Why turn it into little more than a CV carburetor?
The cost? The initial cost on a PC V would be less. But dyno tuning isn't cheap (hundreds upon hundreds of $$) and it's only going to be as good as the tuner himself.
That's just the way I'm leaning. I don't pretend to have an answer just yet. But I'm getting closer to a decision. As you can tell.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 4
I have a few questions about the PC-V, in the description it says under Programming - "pre-programmed". Does this mean that I have to tell them what I have on the bike and it comes programmed already or can I change it up myself? I thought that I would be able to program this myself but maybe I'm wrong or would need some additional stuff to hook up to a laptop,etc. Is a price of $330 seem like a decent deal on one? It seems like I always find out that I overpaid after it's too late. Had considered the Fuelpak because I know that I can program that myself, but after reading some of these postings I gathered that the PC-V is a step up possibly from the Fuelpak, and that the bike will run better with it? Or is this just a bunch of b/s? I have a set of V&H short shorts collecting dust waiting for a tuner to be installed.
The PCV comes with a software program that lets you make adjustments. You can certainly program the PCV yourself, but how do you know what to change? There is no feedback besides your calibrated butt, average mpg, and the heat being thrown off by the engine. So you either start with a preprogram, either downloaded from dynojet or preprogrammed by Fuel motto and, if not satisfied, maybe do some tweaking. Or you go to a tuner with the dynojet setup and they can quickly put a tune on the bike. Running through the Dynojet software is quick and cheap for the dyno tuner. It works great for WOT power tuning.
If you are a DIYer and truly want to be able to get in and tune the bike yourself consider the TTS tuning kit, especially if its a late model equiped with O2 sensors. Costs maybe $100 more than a PCV and uses your O2 sensors to feedback how your bike is calibrated for nearly all your normal riding. Its a useful addition to your tool box that many here are happy they have.
Even with the TTS kit you don't get the feedback a competent dyno operator has, nor much automated help adjusting the timing should you want to go there (the adjustments that work best comes from experience). The kit provides a way to collect all the data you need and if you know what you are doing, is very helpful. You'll probably need to hire a competent tuner if you want that last 3 HP or lbft or torque or 1 mpg.... and sometimes finding a good tuner is the hardest part.
Last edited by ColdCase; Aug 24, 2010 at 09:55 AM.
Club Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,483
Likes: 39
From: Passaic County, NJ
In your opinion, would you be better off with a TTS Masterune that you can program yourself? Wouldn't you save a lot of bread on Dyno Tuning?
My understanding is that you need at least 50+ pulls on a dyno to get a decent tune. And even then, rbracing's opinion of tuning under a constant load is that it isn't always a good idea. I tend to agree.
Then there's the whole 'hardware' v. 'software' argument. I (personally) am not crazy about the idea of something tricking my ECU into thinking the motrcycle is doing something it's not.
Why take a sophisticated piece of equipment that is capable of making countless adjustments (your ECU) and virtually disable it? Why turn it into little more than a CV carburetor?
The cost? The initial cost on a PC V would be less. But dyno tuning isn't cheap (hundreds upon hundreds of $$) and it's only going to be as good as the tuner himself.
That's just the way I'm leaning. I don't pretend to have an answer just yet. But I'm getting closer to a decision. As you can tell.
My understanding is that you need at least 50+ pulls on a dyno to get a decent tune. And even then, rbracing's opinion of tuning under a constant load is that it isn't always a good idea. I tend to agree.
Then there's the whole 'hardware' v. 'software' argument. I (personally) am not crazy about the idea of something tricking my ECU into thinking the motrcycle is doing something it's not.
Why take a sophisticated piece of equipment that is capable of making countless adjustments (your ECU) and virtually disable it? Why turn it into little more than a CV carburetor?
The cost? The initial cost on a PC V would be less. But dyno tuning isn't cheap (hundreds upon hundreds of $$) and it's only going to be as good as the tuner himself.
That's just the way I'm leaning. I don't pretend to have an answer just yet. But I'm getting closer to a decision. As you can tell.
TMAT is an entirely new ecu that uses wide band o2 sensors. The TTS utilizes your narrow band o2 sensors. Pricing for that is in the $800-$900 range. TTS is around $400 or so. PcV is around $350 (add auto tune option is + 350 or so.)
So, optimally you'll be visiting a tuner regardless.
Heck, you can adjust the maps on a pcIII as well but it's more like stabbing in the dark without the use of a dyno to see real time what your changes are affecting.
If the OP is asking if the pcV will auto-tune...yes it will ONLY if you add the $350 auto-tune piggyback option. So, you now have ~$750 invested. again it does not adjust timing.
Maybe the delphi system is smarter than we think/know. I certainly can't say for sure. No one has been able to answer how far it can actually go in adjustments.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,403
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From: Southwest Florida
Well, you have to remember that the ECU can only make adjustments so far especially using narrow band o2 sensors. Also, from what I understand it's not going to adjust the timing. The TTS also does not adjust timing. Even with a TTS your best bet is to get it tuned although the Vtune software will get it pretty close. Most people who have the TTS or Thundermax w/auto-tune (tmat) are fairly happy with it.
TMAT is an entirely new ecu that uses wide band o2 sensors. The TTS utilizes your narrow band o2 sensors. Pricing for that is in the $800-$900 range. TTS is around $400 or so. PcV is around $350 (add auto tune option is + 350 or so.)
So, optimally you'll be visiting a tuner regardless.
Heck, you can adjust the maps on a pcIII as well but it's more like stabbing in the dark without the use of a dyno to see real time what your changes are affecting.
If the OP is asking if the pcV will auto-tune...yes it will ONLY if you add the $350 auto-tune piggyback option. So, you now have ~$750 invested. again it does not adjust timing.
Maybe the delphi system is smarter than we think/know. I certainly can't say for sure. No one has been able to answer how far it can actually go in adjustments.
TMAT is an entirely new ecu that uses wide band o2 sensors. The TTS utilizes your narrow band o2 sensors. Pricing for that is in the $800-$900 range. TTS is around $400 or so. PcV is around $350 (add auto tune option is + 350 or so.)
So, optimally you'll be visiting a tuner regardless.
Heck, you can adjust the maps on a pcIII as well but it's more like stabbing in the dark without the use of a dyno to see real time what your changes are affecting.
If the OP is asking if the pcV will auto-tune...yes it will ONLY if you add the $350 auto-tune piggyback option. So, you now have ~$750 invested. again it does not adjust timing.
Maybe the delphi system is smarter than we think/know. I certainly can't say for sure. No one has been able to answer how far it can actually go in adjustments.
I don't know how 'smart' the Delphi unit is. Probabaly smarter than many of us realize. Which is why I'm not crazy about 'disabling' it.
Here's what rbracing has to say about it --
"We prefer software solutions to tuning late model efi Harleys and not use any add-on boxes or to replace the entire system with some "self-tuning", throttle-angle based, wide band controller. There are simply too many problems technical-wise with wide band sensors...Stuff they do not tell you about like pressure and temperature compensation issues. You are better off with the OEM O2 sensors. You won't believe this but that's your problem.
One point no one is going to tell you is that Harley has hidden tables that will richen up your injectors if you hold the bike under load, like on a dyno or wide open throttle for any amount of time beyond "x". They don't want you to fool with this. Guess what happens to those people who tune under full load.>>
<<It's best that you tune your own bike...add up the hours and write yourself a hot check. Or just pay somebody."
G: I don't worship at the altar of rbracing, or anybody else for that matter, but I do respect their opinions. They've been there, done that and sold the T-Shirt.
Besides, I like their attitude. I'm convinced they're all nuts..
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 227
Likes: 1
From: Daytona Beach Fl
You could get a room full of guys that tune bikes and get differant opinions out of each of them(as long as a fight doesn't break out first). It comes down to how much you want to spend and how good do you want your bike to be tuned. As long as you don't go racing with it it won't need to be perfect besides a perfect tune is impossible because weather conditions change from day to day and that will affect any tune.
Personaly I like the PCV. I recently changed my cams and got headwork done. I sent Dynojet an email and told them of the changes and that I couldn't find a tune for the specific mods and they sent me a tune. The tech support is pretty good and they test thousands of bikes and setups, they usualy know what works and what doesn't.
Personaly I like the PCV. I recently changed my cams and got headwork done. I sent Dynojet an email and told them of the changes and that I couldn't find a tune for the specific mods and they sent me a tune. The tech support is pretty good and they test thousands of bikes and setups, they usualy know what works and what doesn't.
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Club Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,483
Likes: 39
From: Passaic County, NJ
You could get a room full of guys that tune bikes and get differant opinions out of each of them(as long as a fight doesn't break out first). It comes down to how much you want to spend and how good do you want your bike to be tuned. As long as you don't go racing with it it won't need to be perfect besides a perfect tune is impossible because weather conditions change from day to day and that will affect any tune.
Personaly I like the PCV. I recently changed my cams and got headwork done. I sent Dynojet an email and told them of the changes and that I couldn't find a tune for the specific mods and they sent me a tune. The tech support is pretty good and they test thousands of bikes and setups, they usualy know what works and what doesn't.
Personaly I like the PCV. I recently changed my cams and got headwork done. I sent Dynojet an email and told them of the changes and that I couldn't find a tune for the specific mods and they sent me a tune. The tech support is pretty good and they test thousands of bikes and setups, they usualy know what works and what doesn't.
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