XEID's, tuners, full exhaust, slip-ons, breathers, re-maps, stage 1-2-3, etc, etc....what's the best overall combo?

If you have under $300, $600, $1000, $1500...how do you spend it?

I am only really planning on the new full bassani exhaust (the proto-type gave me about 20%, I already experienced that setup), K&N filter (because I LIKE the looks of the stock air cover), power commander, and a decent re-map/tune.

What would just a slip-on and one of these XEID's net? With just a slip-on like I'm running now, I don't think it even needs a map. It's running fine..what if i add an XEID? See what I'm saying?

Seriously, I don't need every ounce of performance the bike has somewhere in it's entire soul but of course I want performance. I don't care if i get 38 mpg or 43 mpg. I want my bike to run efficiently, better than stock, sound like a harley is supposed to and in a manner so that it has the best chance to last for years to come.

What do you suggest?

 

Best overall combo? hmm... There is not one best answer for everyone, so many variables and so many ways to skin the cat. Much of it is subjective which only you can be the judge of. Cheap power is one thing, safe and efficient operation is another.

I would recommend you think about the following:
- Slip ons for sound (rush makes a good one). ($200 - $400)
- If you don't like the style of your air filter, buy one in the style you like ($10 homemade to $500 custom).
- Wait till January and purchase the TTS tuning kit ($400-$500) and load a canned base map (this has better AFR and timing curves). If you want even better efficiency, perform the VTune yourself and save the tuning cash for something else. If you don't want to mess with tuning, hire a competent pro ($300- $600 additional).

This is basically what I did to my dyna (tuned myself) and it seems to be about the sweet spot for those of us that like the sound of a harley, want a different look and more open air filter, want a reliable sweet running and efficient engine (no holes, not spitting or sputtering, great throttle response, no surges, can run on about any gas in a pinch, no impact to mpg), and would like a great diagnostic tool for the tool box. My neighbor did the same thing and he now enjoys his ride (he came off of a 80s tourer). You can spend a lot more, but not much less.

On the other hand, do nothing; perhaps slip ons for sound, and just ride. You don't have to do nuttin but ride.

You didn't mention heat, but if you don't like the heat radiated by the pipes you will have to get rid of the cats, probably the best way is a replacement exhaust. But if you need an EPA sticker for inspections, I think it is a lot easier swapping slip ons than exhaust systems.

 

I used the XIED's on my bone stock 2010 FXDC and they worked great. Gas mileage around town was 38-42 depending on my right hand. Mileage on the interstate (1100 mile trip) was 49 to 51. Added some Rush Slash Cut slip-ons (1.75 baffle) and had decel pop. Had no exhaust leaks, so I added a Dobeck TFI and Ness Big Sucker. I have no plans to mod the motor, so the Dobeck unit made the most sense since all it does is allow you to add fuel. Like I mentioned earlier, the XIED's did a great job on my stock set up. You can roll the dice and hope you aren't one of the unfortunate few that gets a decel pop with XIED's and an aftermarket exhaust. Check out the Dobeck TFI. Install was pretty easy, and it's easy to fine tune to your particular riding style/needs. Cost was around $196.00 shipped. Good luck.

 

I want to hear the one about the tuner.

how to obtain it and use it. what does it look like?

totally clueless at this point but I know I hate paying people for crap I can do myself.
is it an item that stays with the bike?
or something I can plug into the bagger and tune it too?
what is a base map?
etc.
thanx
sorry I am an idiot.

 

Well, FB, ask a thousand guys, you'll get a thousand different answers. Here's my understanding:

1. Your stock ECM is set to hold a relatively constant air/fuel ration (AFR) of 14.7 to 1 in closed loop mode. EPA loves this, your motor doesn't. 14.7 is a lean condition which reduces hydrocarbons, but also diminishes performance and makes the motor run hotter.
2. The bike is in closed loop mode at approximately 4000 RPM and below, and at approximately 40% throttle and below. Above those figures, it's in open loop mode, where factory AFRs vary between 12.5 and 13.8 to 1.
3. The stock ECM (with "narrow band" O2 sensors) can accommodate the increased airflow from a hiperf A/C and free flowing mufflers, and still maintain the 14.7 AFR. Without that ability, the actual AFR would increase (become even leaner) due to the increased air flow, a dangerous condition for the engine.
4. The HD stage 1 download does not alter the 14.7 AFR in closed loop. The most noticeable thing it does for the rider is increase the rev limit from 5700 RPM to 6200 RPM. Cost about $125
5. XiEDs use a resistor to alter the voltage signal from the O2 sensor to the ECM, essentially fooling the ECM into thinking it's maintaining 14.7 AFR, while in reality the changed voltage signal results in a real AFR of 14.0 to 1. This slightly richer condition causes the engine to run cooler (about 25 degrees), and perform better. The 14.0 AFR is constant across the closed loop mode. Cost about $100.
6. Piggyback controllers like the FuelPak and PCIII operate on the same basic principle as the XiED (altering the signal to the ECM), but allow for varying AFRs throughout the closed loop, depending on conditions. This is much more efficient than XiED, but also about triple the price. The FuelPak or PCIII remain installed on your bike in addition to your ECM. Cost about $280-$350.
7. The HD SERT and the TTS Mastertune actually reprogram your ECM, but don't require you to leave anything physically attached to the bike (as the piggyback type controller does). I believe they both also increase your rev limit to 6200 RPM, negating the need for a separate Stage 1 download. Costs $425 and up.

Your Bassani system will work with any of the above solutions, or even with the stock, non-Stage 1 ECM for that matter. The basic question is, and always has been:

How much power do you want? That equals "how much do you want to spend"?

 

TheXiEDs will affect (enrichen) AFR's only when in closed-loop mode, which means anything above about 3K RPM and 50% throttle position (TP) will not be affected. Therefore if you do any kind of mods like mufflers and AC you'll need something else to optimize those areas not affected by XIED, like at WOT. You could buy a Stage 1 download from HD in addition to XIED, but by the time you do both you could have purchased a PCV, a real EFI controller, from Fuel Moto and be covered in all RPM and TP ranges with a very accurate map.

They will provide some additional cooling to the engine while in closed-loop mode by enrichening the AFR to 14.2. It may also make a small difference in response at part-throttle, but your gas mileage will go down. XiEDs are not tuning devices; they are not adjustable and have very little, it any, impact on performance.

Then there is the cat to consider on the later models. The cats like a little extra fuel on startup but too much will coat the cats and the O2 sensors. Additionally, the higher heat from the combustion of the additional fuel will shorten the life of the cat.

Here is the irony of the XiEDs. Wouldn't you want to enrich the AFR in open loop and let it stay lean during cruise riding for good mileage?

Find some way to reprogram the ECM directly. There are several options at various price points and capabilities (and end-user-usability). TTS, SEPST, TechnoReasearch. This will make you the happiest in the long run. Someone previously mentioned the Dobeck TFI. Dobeck is now offering the Gen 4 version. The unit has a multi-function gauge that can be mounted on the bars or into a faring. You can change your AFR on the fly or along side the road. The hardware includes O2 sensor from Bosh, that fits into the front pipe where the AFR readings are taken. Just being able to SEE your actual AFR and at different speed,gears,throttle positions is pretty cool. Easy install, good customer service, no dyno time and, for Stage I engines, even with mild cams; it's pretty slick and cheaper than the more sophisticated systems.

 

Others have said it but:
The TTS interface box does not stay on the bike
They offer a two bike box
Base map is the base calibration developed for something close to your bike, it replaces the stock map. If you are going to tune, you use it as a starting point.

Information from the vendor is here :

http://www.mastertune.net/

You can download the software to get a feel for it

There is a sticky thread in

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/elect...-injection-55/


Several forum sponsors offer it, you have to call to get any unadvertised discounts.

Its not for everyone. You need to know your way around a computer (like finding this forum) and don't mind riding with a laptop, its has been proven to be an excellent tool. Its like tuning a carb, but your fingers don't smell like fuel after

 

Everybody is different. I'm running big sucker, slip ons (no cats) and XEID's. For someone on a tight budget it works out great. (just about 550 total)

If I ever want to improve on that I will go with the SERT (don't have to have a box under the seat, it remaps the EFI) and I will have it professionally tuned by a quality dyno master that is very highly recomended. I don't want to spend 300-500 and then have to work at getting it to run right or go hit and miss with canned maps.

So for now its low budget, later it is all or nothing.

 

Thank you to ALL who responded. You guys took a bit of your own time to respond and it is very much appreciated.

Lots to digest...your collective knowledge is bigtime impressive.
Great forum and people here

...thanks again, one and all!

 

Bottom line, FB, is you probably can't make a bad decision, from doing nothing to putting on the most sophisticated auto tuning system. Whatever enhances your riding experience to the level you (and your wallet) want is the right choice.

The whole gamut of devices is a bit like the synthetic oil debate. Lots of passionate opinions, lots of good (and bad) info floating around.

I do want to clear up a couple of misconceptions about the XiED. First off, no one to my knowledge has claimed it's a "performance" mod. The product is marketed as a way of cooling the engine (which it absolutely does). HD acknowledges their engines run hot - that's why the touring series have the ability to shut of gas to the rear cylinders at idle to keep temps down. Cooling aside though, virtually everyone who installs XiEDs also report a better running engine - crisper throttle response, smoother running (that's not the same thing as increased torque or hp). That's just a bonus.

Also, closed loop operation really does go to around 4000 RPM. The attached dyno chart (from my bike) gives us empirical evidence of this. Although it's probably hard to see in the pic, if you look at the AFR line at the bottom, it begins to decrease from 14.7 at about 4200 RPM. That's where the ECM is switching to open loop operation.

Running at 14.0 has no effect on the catalytic converter. If it did, then ALL open loop operation would be detrimental to the cat, as even from the factory open loop is designed to operate at 12.5 - 13.8 AFR at WOT. More importantly (WARNING - THIS IS HUMOR SO DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY!), who cares about the catalytic convertor anyway? If we did, we'd never do any engine mods!

Lastly, the reason you want to run at 14.0 in closed loop is precisely for the reason nightrider markets the product - to have a cooler running engine. EVERY tuning device mentioned in this thread alters the AFR to a richer condition to one degree or another. In other words, EVERY device will end up using more gas IF THE THROTTLE IS OPENED THE SAME AMOUNT AS BEFORE THE TUNING MOD WAS DONE. The way you preserve gas mileage is when you require LESS throttle to achieve the same "performance" as before the mod. Of course, that's not really why we do the mods. LOL.

All that being said, XiED is an excellent low budget modification, BUT IT IS IN NO WAY EQUAL TO A PIGGY BACK CONTROLLER OR A TRUE TUNER (assuming you have the right map). A lot of guys are happy with XiEDs. A lot are happy with no modification. A lot are happy with piggy backs. Some are happy with a full on new ECM. There's no right or wrong here.

Next summer I'll probably put a SERT on, mainly because I've already gone through the learning curve for tuning with one (and it's definitely a steep curve!). Or maybe, I'll just be happy with the way it is now. Who knows?

Oh, yeah, I'm a synthetic oil believer, too. But let's not start that one all over again. LOL