PCV or Power Vision
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 3
From: Ca.
So you are saying it is worth the extra money then. Any reports of problems and if so, how are they being rectified? Are there downloadable abilities for future tweeks of the software if there's a quirk, problem or upgrade?
I heard the company subbed it out and are having a learning curve themselves. i don't know if that's customary or bad. Lots of folks are talking about it, ANY downsides yet?
I heard the company subbed it out and are having a learning curve themselves. i don't know if that's customary or bad. Lots of folks are talking about it, ANY downsides yet?
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,739
Likes: 10
From: Suffolk, England
The PCV is a Piggy Back tuner and I agree with slider but they do have their place. They are the simplest to use if you are just doing minor engine mods like a stage 1 and close is good enough for you. They plug into the bike between the ECU and the engine systems. Basically the way they work is if you set them to change the mixture, they will take the message from the O2 sensors in your exhaust, change them and send the modified signal to the ECU. For example, you tell the PCV to richen the mixture. The signal coming back from the O2 sensor to the ECU says "The A/F mixture is exactly where the factory tune says it should be." The PCV now takes that signal and changes it. The signal it sends to the ECU says "Hey, we're running leaner than the factory setting, add more fuel." and the ECU adds more fuel. Now the O2 will say "Hey, we're too rich. Less fuel." but again, the PCV takes that signal, modifies it and sends a new signal to the ECU that says "The A/F mixture is exactly where the factory tune says it should be." so the ECU maintains that mixture.
The original PCs did sit between the O2 sensors and ECU as you describe, pretty similar to how Xieds work. Now though, the PCV is supplied with O2 sensor eliminators and so the sensors don't figure in it all. The PCV doesn't sit between the O2 sensors and the ECU but between the ECU and the injectors. The ECU puts out the information to the injectors with the engine speed and injector opening information, the PC then adjusts the injector opening values (often to richen the mixture) before passing on to the injectors.
Not my preferred solution personally because it removes a set of the bike's major sensors that allow for on-the-fly adjustment for variations in conditions. As well as needing hardware left installed that seems to go wrong fairly often.
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 3
From: Ca.
So foxter, what is your preference then? I've read some of your posts on other threads and you seem to know your stuff well.
That's not how the Power Commanders work now, its not been like that for some years.
The original PCs did sit between the O2 sensors and ECU as you describe, pretty similar to how Xieds work. Now though, the PCV is supplied with O2 sensor eliminators and so the sensors don't figure in it all. The PCV doesn't sit between the O2 sensors and the ECU but between the ECU and the injectors. The ECU puts out the information to the injectors with the engine speed and injector opening information, the PC then adjusts the injector opening values (often to richen the mixture) before passing on to the injectors.
Not my preferred solution personally because it removes a set of the bike's major sensors that allow for on-the-fly adjustment for variations in conditions. As well as needing hardware left installed that seems to go wrong fairly often.
The original PCs did sit between the O2 sensors and ECU as you describe, pretty similar to how Xieds work. Now though, the PCV is supplied with O2 sensor eliminators and so the sensors don't figure in it all. The PCV doesn't sit between the O2 sensors and the ECU but between the ECU and the injectors. The ECU puts out the information to the injectors with the engine speed and injector opening information, the PC then adjusts the injector opening values (often to richen the mixture) before passing on to the injectors.
Not my preferred solution personally because it removes a set of the bike's major sensors that allow for on-the-fly adjustment for variations in conditions. As well as needing hardware left installed that seems to go wrong fairly often.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,739
Likes: 10
From: Suffolk, England
Personally, I buy time on a dyno and do my own tuning, so for my Dyna I went with a SEPST. TTS would have been a good alternative.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,881
Likes: 3
From: Pennslytucky
i think i'm going with a thundermax with auto tune. no guess work, no dyno tunes, no bs. yes it costs a small fortune, but mods down the road are as easy as installing the parts and riding the bike. that is my kind of tuner. i was looking at the cobra but i think i have decided on the thundermax. i did look at the power vision but i really don't think it's for me.
Last edited by jo_mama; Jan 20, 2012 at 12:10 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 3
From: Ca.
I'm right at the point of doing this, that's why I'm asking. I get my new full Bassani system any day now. They suggested a PCV, K&N air filter (I like my stock cover's looks) and a Dyno tune. I can see a value in something that doesn't have to stay on the bike and could get damaged or wear out as opposed to hooking up a device only as needed.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,739
Likes: 10
From: Suffolk, England
I'm pretty lame on all this, what do the acronyms SEPST and TTS mean and what does each do compared with the PCV and the new PV?
I'm right at the point of doing this, that's why I'm asking. I get my new full Bassani system any day now. They suggested a PCV, K&N air filter (I like my stock cover's looks) and a Dyno tune. I can see a value in something that doesn't have to stay on the bike and could get damaged or wear out as opposed to hooking up a device only as needed.
I'm right at the point of doing this, that's why I'm asking. I get my new full Bassani system any day now. They suggested a PCV, K&N air filter (I like my stock cover's looks) and a Dyno tune. I can see a value in something that doesn't have to stay on the bike and could get damaged or wear out as opposed to hooking up a device only as needed.
Disadvantage of a PCV is that its tuned for the day on the dyno. The O2 sensors are removed and so the self-tuning ability of the bike is disabled and it can't adjust to varying conditions, like the real world has.
The SEPST is Harley's tuning gizmo that lets the bike's tune be adjusted. You can either run with a canned tune and some auto-tuning or else get it set up properly on a dyno for max results. TTS is an alternative doohickey from another maker with a slightly better computer interface for the guy tuning. Neither require anything left on the bike once the tune is set.
The PV is OK and so is the Thundermax. Get one of these with the better O2 sensors and they are supposed to be all singing and dancing alternatives to dyno time. Minor kick in the *** with that is that it aint true.
All those self-tuning tuners (like the Thundermax with auto-tune) give you the air-fuel ratios that their makers think might make your bike (and added bits) run best. However, its just their guess. The bike will make a real good effort at keeping the bike running close to that guess but its not keeping the bike running at the best but at their guess of the best. The only way to know if a bike is performing well is by measuring it on a dyno and adjusting the tune accordingly. Don't listen to any marketing BS that tells you otherwise.
Last edited by Foxster; Jan 20, 2012 at 01:31 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 3
From: Ca.
Nothing wrong with the PCV. Big advantage being that's its available for lots of bikes and so lots of places know how to tune with them without knowing much about the bike itself. Kinda why it gets a bit over-sold.
Disadvantage of a PCV is that its tuned for the day on the dyno. The O2 sensors are removed and so the self-tuning ability of the bike is disabled and it can't adjust to varying conditions, like the real world has.
The SEPST is Harley's tuning gizmo that lets the bike's tune be adjusted. You can either run with a canned tune and some auto-tuning or else get it set up properly on a dyno for max results. TTS is an alternative doohickey from another maker with a slightly better computer interface for the guy tuning. Neither require anything left on the bike once the tune is set.
The PV is OK and so is the Thundermax. Get one of these with the better O2 sensors and they are supposed to be all singing and dancing alternatives to dyno time. Minor kick in the *** with that is that it aint true.
All those self-tuning tuners (like the Thundermax with auto-tune) give you the air-fuel ratios that their makers think might make your bike (and added bits) run best. However, its just their guess. The bike will make a real good effort at keeping the bike running close to that guess but its not keeping the bike running at the best but at their guess of the best. The only way to know if a bike is performing well is by measuring it on a dyno and adjusting the tune accordingly. Don't listen to any marketing BS that tells you otherwise.
Disadvantage of a PCV is that its tuned for the day on the dyno. The O2 sensors are removed and so the self-tuning ability of the bike is disabled and it can't adjust to varying conditions, like the real world has.
The SEPST is Harley's tuning gizmo that lets the bike's tune be adjusted. You can either run with a canned tune and some auto-tuning or else get it set up properly on a dyno for max results. TTS is an alternative doohickey from another maker with a slightly better computer interface for the guy tuning. Neither require anything left on the bike once the tune is set.
The PV is OK and so is the Thundermax. Get one of these with the better O2 sensors and they are supposed to be all singing and dancing alternatives to dyno time. Minor kick in the *** with that is that it aint true.
All those self-tuning tuners (like the Thundermax with auto-tune) give you the air-fuel ratios that their makers think might make your bike (and added bits) run best. However, its just their guess. The bike will make a real good effort at keeping the bike running close to that guess but its not keeping the bike running at the best but at their guess of the best. The only way to know if a bike is performing well is by measuring it on a dyno and adjusting the tune accordingly. Don't listen to any marketing BS that tells you otherwise.
Last edited by FBinSoCal; Jan 20, 2012 at 03:27 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,739
Likes: 10
From: Suffolk, England
So the advice Bassani gave me is valid then because they also said I would need to send it to a dyno guy for the right tweak of the PCV. But going back to the PV, those settings would be just presets too and based upon someones medium range guess of settings for like motors but an ability to switch between those presets? Can the presets be devised or configured by a dyno guy and saved as an additional preset so it's unique and tailored to my specific bike?
PCV, SEPST, TTS, PV, etc offer a range of canned maps (presets) for different engines, exhausts, etc. Some offer more than others. I'd say PC offer the most and Harley the least. Some of these maps are going to be pretty close to what you need. Others not so great. Depends how fussy you are whether you are happy with a canned map or if you want to get **** and finish the job properly.
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 3
From: Ca.
Yes.
PCV, SEPST, TTS, PV, etc offer a range of canned maps (presets) for different engines, exhausts, etc. Some offer more than others. I'd say PC offer the most and Harley the least. Some of these maps are going to be pretty close to what you need. Others not so great. Depends how fussy you are whether you are happy with a canned map or if you want to get **** and finish the job properly.
PCV, SEPST, TTS, PV, etc offer a range of canned maps (presets) for different engines, exhausts, etc. Some offer more than others. I'd say PC offer the most and Harley the least. Some of these maps are going to be pretty close to what you need. Others not so great. Depends how fussy you are whether you are happy with a canned map or if you want to get **** and finish the job properly.
The extra I'll get just from the whole exhaust system is substantial and enough for me, all this other stuff is just to make it run "right" per my above goals and I consider, frosting on the cake.