Front suspension upgrade
Former Sponsor
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: Las Vegas
The 49mm forks don't pump much oil and on the earlier model Dyna's it was annoying having the forks rise excessively when going through the gears. The newer bikes use a smaller rebound hole so it not as much of a concern.
What you are going through is very typical, I do the same thing myself all the time. You make an improvement then get used to it and start to pick it apart, or want it to work better. The 5w will be smoother. If it were me that would be the first thing I would try as it is the easiest to do and I bet it will solve your problems.
Brian
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Joined: Jul 2011
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From: New Braunfels, Texas
Ha, I think your right Brian. The first time I rode with the intimidators it was awesome. Went on a 150 mile ride shortly after and loved them. Took it for a short hop and it was like I never installed them.
One question I did have for you....You mentioned in one thread that 1 1/4- 1 3/4 was the target sag. Mine came out to 1 1/4...with my weight should I shave another 1/2" off? I take it your range comes out to 1/3 total sag? That would make it softer, right? Have you expermented with other fork oils? I had belray 7w in my sporty and loved it. Maybe that would be the right balance?
I almost hate to take the new 10w out I just put in, stuff ain't cheep.
One question I did have for you....You mentioned in one thread that 1 1/4- 1 3/4 was the target sag. Mine came out to 1 1/4...with my weight should I shave another 1/2" off? I take it your range comes out to 1/3 total sag? That would make it softer, right? Have you expermented with other fork oils? I had belray 7w in my sporty and loved it. Maybe that would be the right balance?
I almost hate to take the new 10w out I just put in, stuff ain't cheep.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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From: earth
Just spoke with RT on the phone, they did verify that the 49mm is a progressive rate, it is the only spring they carry for the 49mm tube, and its the only progressive they carry. That being the case, I would look for a different company that could provide a single rate spring, Maybe Sonic or Traxxion, if I had a Dyna to work on I would put some more energy into tuning this 49mm platform. Persistence is the name of the game, it can be tweaked for excellent performance. Sorry I didn't know about the spring, I would have told to look elsewhere, no point in swapping one progressive for another.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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From: New Braunfels, Texas
They finally responded to my e-mail and told me the same thing. I may hold off on the spring completely and concentrate on playing with preload and oils, and maybe putting the "soft stack" shims in the intimidators. If I didn't ride my bike all year around I would just send them to you Jason to change out as now I'm going to approach that very cautiosly after your warnings or just break down and buy the spanner from Brian.
Jason thanks for sending the chart, now I just have to figure out how to read it. I'm trying to learn a few things but sometimes it goes right over my head.
I'm strongly considering the bel ray 7w since its kinda between the 5w and 10w.
Will changing to a different weight (slight not drastic) change the preload at all?
And ryderbiker, thanks for clearing that up...I was thinking they were single rate. Is the stock harley spring also progressive or single?
Jason thanks for sending the chart, now I just have to figure out how to read it. I'm trying to learn a few things but sometimes it goes right over my head.
I'm strongly considering the bel ray 7w since its kinda between the 5w and 10w.
Will changing to a different weight (slight not drastic) change the preload at all?
And ryderbiker, thanks for clearing that up...I was thinking they were single rate. Is the stock harley spring also progressive or single?
Last edited by rooti; Dec 12, 2012 at 02:51 PM.
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Road Warrior
Joined: May 2006
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From: Bossier City, LA
Traxxion sells the single rate springs. Only one I found who does. It took me forever, 5 months, to get the correct parts from them though.
The stock spring is progressive also. You can tell by the coil windings. If they are the same all the way through its single rate. If they are tighter, or closer together, on one end they are progressive or variable rate.
The stock spring is progressive also. You can tell by the coil windings. If they are the same all the way through its single rate. If they are tighter, or closer together, on one end they are progressive or variable rate.
Last edited by ryderbiker; Dec 13, 2012 at 01:32 PM.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2011
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From: New Braunfels, Texas
Traxxion sells the single rate springs. Only one I found who does. It took me forever, 5 months,
How important do you all think the single rate spring is in this setup? Obviously, it seems that the majority of people that use the intimidators are using them with a progressive spring. Does the progressive spring actual take away what the intimidators are capable of?
Jason, you have the most experience of anyone here of modding the ricors. I realize your main focus has been on baggers, but exactly how do you think going to the softer stack on the intimidators would affect the ride and handling. If you were going to mod some for a dyna, what would be your first step as a test?
If you all had to choose 1 fork oil on the 49mm forks what brand and wt would you use?
I understand that setting the sag is the first step and I will check that first. I figure if I have to make any changes I will try "one other thing" while I've got it apart.
Which would you all choose and why.
Since I really don't know much about suspensions, I like to get as many opinions as possible and make my best decision from that. I never just take one opinion when doing mods, but take a little from everyone that pipes in so I can have an educated guess on what would be the next step.
I hope you all don't grow tired of my questions. I will work through it and post what worked best for me when I get it right.
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From: earth
The softer stack will do two things, it will soften the wheel circuit damping or make it less harsh, and it will soften the chasis circuit and give you more brake dive. There are some universal fundamentals that are not platform specific, it doesn't matter how heavy a bike is, you need the right springs for the application to start with. The springs are the foundation of the suspension, they provide a neutral support condition at a given sag, without getting that right first you will be shooting in the dark. Before any other modification, deviation, fluid change, or valve shim change, I would install a set of weight matched springs, that is based on experiments with different variable and sigle rate springs and the results I observed working with the touring platform. Then you can start to tweak the valves which contol the hydraulic circuits and damping to get it set up the best it can be. Springs, definately springs, that is my recommendation. I don't recommend making multiple changes at one time, you won't be able to discern what change had what effect. Most people are using a progressive rate spring because they are simply dropping the Intiminators in with the stock progressive springs. With a progressive spring, the rate changes as the forks pump up and down through the travel, but you and the bike weight doesn't change, and the valves are not variable and even if they were it would be quite a chalenge to get them synchronized with the variable sectors of the springs. I'm surely not going to get into any deabte over progressive and single rate springs, I've already researched the theory on both and tried them both, and it is my opinion that single rate is far better, hands down.
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Road Warrior
Joined: May 2006
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From: Bossier City, LA
If you go back to the beginning of this post and check out the link to Jason's thread that was in the touring section, he does a great job of explaining why single rate work better with the valves. I've spoken to many suspension gurus in the past year. Not one of them will tell you the same thing or agree on what works best. I'm about to install the 4th set of springs in my Dyna and haven't had anything work as well as the stock springs and intimidators. Once I get the single rate springs in I'm sure I will be even more impressed.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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From: New Braunfels, Texas
That's exactly the info I was looking for. I did check into the sonics, but according to their website, the only springs they sell for harleys are sportsters or road king. So traxxion is the only choice? Kinda hard to believe...I sure don't want to go through what ryderbiker went through to get his springs...I guess I'll have to call them.
So if I'm understanding you correct Jason..the intimidators work so well you can pretty much rely on them for your suspension...the springs are just to hold the weight.
So if I'm understanding you correct Jason..the intimidators work so well you can pretty much rely on them for your suspension...the springs are just to hold the weight.
Last edited by rooti; Dec 14, 2012 at 02:17 PM.