IPB and Stator/cup Issues 2006
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Road Master
Joined: Aug 2007
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Another update:
Sent the trashed inner primary bearing off to work with the wife today to see if the engineers there could give a failure analysis (she works for a bearing manufacturer).
To me, it looks like most of the load was on one end of the bearing, rather than being evenly distributed. In other words, one end of the rollers was taking most of the load, and the inner race at that end of the rollers was over-loaded and started shedding metal. In other words, an alignment problem.
This could be due to one of many possible machining errors during manufacture, but could also be due to the bearing being off-center, relative to the transmission shaft, so the shaft runs slightly cocked in the bearing. So the theory about the missing locating dowels is looking good.
Even if the inner primary case was wiggled around to get proper alignment during assembly, the forces on that part are so large that it might not stay in place without some positive locating device, like dowels.
If that's the problem, not sure what the solution would be yet, other than switching to the updated doweled parts. Or maybe there's a spherical style roller bearing which would fit. This style is made to tolerate some misalignment.
Sent the trashed inner primary bearing off to work with the wife today to see if the engineers there could give a failure analysis (she works for a bearing manufacturer).
To me, it looks like most of the load was on one end of the bearing, rather than being evenly distributed. In other words, one end of the rollers was taking most of the load, and the inner race at that end of the rollers was over-loaded and started shedding metal. In other words, an alignment problem.
This could be due to one of many possible machining errors during manufacture, but could also be due to the bearing being off-center, relative to the transmission shaft, so the shaft runs slightly cocked in the bearing. So the theory about the missing locating dowels is looking good.
Even if the inner primary case was wiggled around to get proper alignment during assembly, the forces on that part are so large that it might not stay in place without some positive locating device, like dowels.
If that's the problem, not sure what the solution would be yet, other than switching to the updated doweled parts. Or maybe there's a spherical style roller bearing which would fit. This style is made to tolerate some misalignment.
Or.. could it be the primary chain tensioner ratcheting up so tight that it put so much stress on the transmission shaft that it torched the bearing? Personally I think its the missing locating dowels. Why would Harley upgrade both the inner primary housing and the transmission housing mid 2006 with the new models that include the 2 locating dowels is there wasn't some kind of an issue with alignment that they knew about.
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Joined: Aug 2012
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From: Detroit
Or.. could it be the primary chain tensioner ratcheting up so tight that it put so much stress on the transmission shaft that it torched the bearing? Personally I think its the missing locating dowels. Why would Harley upgrade both the inner primary housing and the transmission housing mid 2006 with the new models that include the 2 locating dowels is there wasn't some kind of an issue with alignment that they knew about.
On the Hayden tensioner, I'd worry about a tensioner which doesn't lock in place somehow. What happens on decel, when the load moves to the bottom of the chain? Will the tensioner spring compress, and the chain goes all sloppy?
Maybe a manually adjusted tensioner would be a better choice. Or maybe it doesn't matter if the chain goes all sloppy on decel.
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Road Master
Joined: Aug 2007
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So, from what I am reading regarding the IPB it seems that its really hit or miss as to whether or not a problem is going to occur. Now I am reading that even after installing the Baker bearing there is no guarantee that the lack of the locating dowels isn't going to torch even the Baker bearing. I am thinking that without the 2 locating dowels its a hit or miss scenario whether or not the primary case lines up correctly with the transmission case and that by me taking apart a bike with no issues I could potentially create the issue. What I mean is I guess its possible that the factory actually lined up my tranny case and inner primary case perfectly. I only have 6500 miles on the bike but its not acting up at all. It seems more and more like a crap shoot in regards to taking it apart.
I planned on taking it all apart and replacing the stock bearing with a Baker, tack welding the screws on the rotor and installing a Hayden primary chain tensioner. I was considering also replacing the stock sprocket compensator with the SE model which many feel is a very good upgrade. Now I don't know what to do but I do know one thing for sure. None of this work is rocket science and I would prefer to do it all myself.
I planned on taking it all apart and replacing the stock bearing with a Baker, tack welding the screws on the rotor and installing a Hayden primary chain tensioner. I was considering also replacing the stock sprocket compensator with the SE model which many feel is a very good upgrade. Now I don't know what to do but I do know one thing for sure. None of this work is rocket science and I would prefer to do it all myself.
Road Master
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Yakima WA
I watch these threads because I too have an 06 dyna and have read all the threads so that I can be an informed owner. The inner primary bearing was checked (no replacement needed) and the rotor was swapped out for an 07 and later charging system when the SE 120R was installed. If ever there was a combo that would test the lack of dowel between the inner primary and the trans case, I would suggest this bike making 139.92 hp and 133.7 tq would be it. Many miles later, no problems.
The biggest problem with the inner primary bearing from what I have found researching this was inner races that were not properly heat treated. Seems the 06 early production bikes seemed to have more problems than later production.
As to the rotor, a cup held on with screws probably seemed like a good idea, but in reality was a poor design. Should HD make good on this, yes they should as they should also address the deficiencies of the throttle by wire system (my bike has been in the shop for four weeks while they search for the solution).
As for the OP experience with HD, I can understand their rep being guarded as they talk with you when you indicate terms such as "my wife doesn't feel safe riding this bike" or "I don't feel I can trust the bike to ride it out of town" (or similar wording). If you were talking to me I would feel like you were trying to trap me into making statements you could drag me into court with later.
Your plan sounds solid, make the changes you proposed (Baker IPB, fixed rotor, Hayden tensioner) and ride the bike. Fix the broken chit as it occurs and move on. As long as you ride a mechanical device, there is the possibility of failure. Buy the service manuals and some tools and enjoy.
The biggest problem with the inner primary bearing from what I have found researching this was inner races that were not properly heat treated. Seems the 06 early production bikes seemed to have more problems than later production.
As to the rotor, a cup held on with screws probably seemed like a good idea, but in reality was a poor design. Should HD make good on this, yes they should as they should also address the deficiencies of the throttle by wire system (my bike has been in the shop for four weeks while they search for the solution).
As for the OP experience with HD, I can understand their rep being guarded as they talk with you when you indicate terms such as "my wife doesn't feel safe riding this bike" or "I don't feel I can trust the bike to ride it out of town" (or similar wording). If you were talking to me I would feel like you were trying to trap me into making statements you could drag me into court with later.
Your plan sounds solid, make the changes you proposed (Baker IPB, fixed rotor, Hayden tensioner) and ride the bike. Fix the broken chit as it occurs and move on. As long as you ride a mechanical device, there is the possibility of failure. Buy the service manuals and some tools and enjoy.
Last edited by Inspector 12; Aug 8, 2013 at 10:23 AM.
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Road Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 848
Likes: 8
From:
I watch these threads because I too have an 06 dyna and have read all the threads so that I can be an informed owner. The inner primary bearing was checked (no replacement needed) and the rotor was swapped out for an 07 and later charging system when the SE 120R was installed. If ever there was a combo that would test the lack of dowel between the inner primary and the trans case, I would suggest this bike making 139.92 hp and 133.7 tq would be it. Many miles later, no problems.
The biggest problem with the inner primary bearing from what I have found researching this was inner races that were not properly heat treated. Seems the 06 early production bikes seemed to have more problems than later production.
As to the rotor, a cup held on with screws probably seemed like a good idea, but in reality was a poor design. Should HD make good on this, yes they should as they should also address the deficiencies of the throttle by wire system (my bike has been in the shop for four weeks while they search for the solution).
As for the OP experience with HD, I can understand their rep being guarded as they talk with you when you indicate terms such as "my wife doesn't feel safe riding this bike" or "I don't feel I can trust the bike to ride it out of town" (or similar wording). If you were talking to me I would feel like you were trying to trap me into making statements you could drag me into court with later.
Your plan sounds solid, make the changes you proposed (Baker IPB, fixed rotor, Hayden tensioner) and ride the bike. Fix the broken chit as it occurs and move on. As long as you ride a mechanical device, there is the possibility of failure. Buy the service manuals and some tools and enjoy.
The biggest problem with the inner primary bearing from what I have found researching this was inner races that were not properly heat treated. Seems the 06 early production bikes seemed to have more problems than later production.
As to the rotor, a cup held on with screws probably seemed like a good idea, but in reality was a poor design. Should HD make good on this, yes they should as they should also address the deficiencies of the throttle by wire system (my bike has been in the shop for four weeks while they search for the solution).
As for the OP experience with HD, I can understand their rep being guarded as they talk with you when you indicate terms such as "my wife doesn't feel safe riding this bike" or "I don't feel I can trust the bike to ride it out of town" (or similar wording). If you were talking to me I would feel like you were trying to trap me into making statements you could drag me into court with later.
Your plan sounds solid, make the changes you proposed (Baker IPB, fixed rotor, Hayden tensioner) and ride the bike. Fix the broken chit as it occurs and move on. As long as you ride a mechanical device, there is the possibility of failure. Buy the service manuals and some tools and enjoy.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,217
Likes: 90
From: Detroit
That could be, but replacement bearings don't seem to fix the problem for good. Maybe the bearing engineers where I sent it for inspection will go as far as checking the heat treat. However, it appears that the stock bearings were supplied by two different manufacturers, and both are failing. Someone mentioned that his was a F A G, and mine was something else which I don't remember right now, but my wife recognized them both as brands with good reputations, not junk. It seems like a long shot that both suppliers would have had the same quality control issue. Bearings can easily be messed up by the end user, with issues such as misalignment, an incorrect housing or shaft size when a press-fit is used, etc.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 14,564
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From: the 50s & the 60s
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where did you get this??
never heard this before, except from you.....
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Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 848
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From:
2006 DYNA
From late 2005 through March 2006 the bikes have no locating dowels and the cases aren't drilled for them and they all have screwed together rotors. (this means you need to replace both the inner primary case and the tranny case with the 2007 models + you need to upgrade to the 2007 rotor/stator assembly)
April 2006 through May 2006 some bikes have provisions for locating dowels in the transmission cases but the inner primary housing has no provisions. (this means you need to replace the inner primary case with the 2007 model + you need to upgrade to the 2007 rotor/stator assembly)
June 2006 through the end of the 2006 production all the bikes have locating dowels and welded rotors. (you get to enjoy riding your bike without worrying about the impending doom that awaits you at the worst possible time)
Harley sort of admits this too because the upgraded Stator/Rotor assembly part number has -06B as the suffix which means it came out in 2006.
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Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 14,564
Likes: 9,225
From: the 50s & the 60s
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I highly doubt any 006 Dyna has a build date June 06 or later.
007s hit the showroom floor in August 06
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I highly doubt any 006 Dyna has a build date June 06 or later.
007s hit the showroom floor in August 06
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I based this on all the threads I have read online. It appears from my reading that the factory started using the doweled cases and the welded rotor/stator cup around June of 06 because every post from an owner who either took theirs apart and found the newer parts installed or who hasn't had any problems at all are from bikes manufactured June or later. From all my EXTENSIVE research I have come to this conclusion...
2006 DYNA
From late 2005 through March 2006 the bikes have no locating dowels and the cases aren't drilled for them and they all have screwed together rotors. (this means you need to replace both the inner primary case and the tranny case with the 2007 models + you need to upgrade to the 2007 rotor/stator assembly)
April 2006 through May 2006 some bikes have provisions for locating dowels in the transmission cases but the inner primary housing has no provisions. (this means you need to replace the inner primary case with the 2007 model + you need to upgrade to the 2007 rotor/stator assembly)
June 2006 through the end of the 2006 production all the bikes have locating dowels and welded rotors. (you get to enjoy riding your bike without worrying about the impending doom that awaits you at the worst possible time)
Harley sort of admits this too because the upgraded Stator/Rotor assembly part number has -06B as the suffix which means it came out in 2006.
2006 DYNA
From late 2005 through March 2006 the bikes have no locating dowels and the cases aren't drilled for them and they all have screwed together rotors. (this means you need to replace both the inner primary case and the tranny case with the 2007 models + you need to upgrade to the 2007 rotor/stator assembly)
April 2006 through May 2006 some bikes have provisions for locating dowels in the transmission cases but the inner primary housing has no provisions. (this means you need to replace the inner primary case with the 2007 model + you need to upgrade to the 2007 rotor/stator assembly)
June 2006 through the end of the 2006 production all the bikes have locating dowels and welded rotors. (you get to enjoy riding your bike without worrying about the impending doom that awaits you at the worst possible time)
Harley sort of admits this too because the upgraded Stator/Rotor assembly part number has -06B as the suffix which means it came out in 2006.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,227
Likes: 7,803
From: Along the shoreline in SW FL
I too was an '06 Dyna owner until last winter when I sold her.
I bought her with 10k on the clock years ago. Soon after learned about the dreaded inner primary bearing issue. Mine was loud..all the usual symptoms..neutral, clutch out..sounded like a skate board with metal wheels being spun by someones hand. Pull in the clutch and/or dump her into first..sound went away. Put back into neutral and let out clutch...sound returned. Could hear it a block away. Checked with the original dealership that the bike came from, they said they already replaced the IPB once on it.
One day when out riding with my wife on the back...she started making a metal shaving/chattering noise..almost squeeky..as we were at a stoplight. My heart sank...figured the IPB was about to croak. Nursed her home slowly...about 25 miles maybe..she got us home. Took to a local indy guy...he took off the outer primary, and copper pasta everywhere. He told me the stator mounting bolts weren't tack welded on on the early 06 models and they backed off by themselves. So he put in an 07 stator. While the primary case was off...told him to put in the often mentioned "Baker IPB"...which he did.
Took bike home..rode for another month. I didn't like the sound of the Baker...so took it back to him, took it out, and put in an '07 IPB. I liked that better...she ran great for another 2+ years and lots of miles.
I bought her with 10k on the clock years ago. Soon after learned about the dreaded inner primary bearing issue. Mine was loud..all the usual symptoms..neutral, clutch out..sounded like a skate board with metal wheels being spun by someones hand. Pull in the clutch and/or dump her into first..sound went away. Put back into neutral and let out clutch...sound returned. Could hear it a block away. Checked with the original dealership that the bike came from, they said they already replaced the IPB once on it.
One day when out riding with my wife on the back...she started making a metal shaving/chattering noise..almost squeeky..as we were at a stoplight. My heart sank...figured the IPB was about to croak. Nursed her home slowly...about 25 miles maybe..she got us home. Took to a local indy guy...he took off the outer primary, and copper pasta everywhere. He told me the stator mounting bolts weren't tack welded on on the early 06 models and they backed off by themselves. So he put in an 07 stator. While the primary case was off...told him to put in the often mentioned "Baker IPB"...which he did.
Took bike home..rode for another month. I didn't like the sound of the Baker...so took it back to him, took it out, and put in an '07 IPB. I liked that better...she ran great for another 2+ years and lots of miles.