New exhaust/intake without Dyno
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 17,548
Likes: 7,172
From: Oxford, Nc
Back in the day (like my bike,) we knew to adjust with downloads / tuners (or re-jet the carbs,) if we increased air flow. And I thought that the new closed loop injection adjusted for the lean condition when increasing air flow. If not, I could see maybe a download might be necessary. But if it needs a dyno then it needs a tuner and that turns out to be one damn expensive Stage I if that is indeed the case.
I don't understand the need for a dyno tune on such a mild upgrade.
I don't understand the need for a dyno tune on such a mild upgrade.
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
From: Golden Meadows
.I think by the responses and from my experience , you have to ask yourself ------- How well do you like your bike ? Are you willing to take the chance ?
For the money that I paid for my bike , I do everything possible to ensure that it is safeguarded from all unnecessary perils ! Good luck..............
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,766
Likes: 16
From: Roseville, CA
Fine for part throttle, its at WOT and perhaps decel where it is needed.
Don't go WOT. And without a tune you're leaving hp on the table. The stock electronics likely won't "tune up" for increased power.
Don't go WOT. And without a tune you're leaving hp on the table. The stock electronics likely won't "tune up" for increased power.
Last edited by Deuuuce; Jan 22, 2014 at 12:07 PM.
Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 626
Likes: 2
From: The Coma
You do not need a download or any sort of dyno work for intake and exhaust, the EFI will adjust just fine. Check out some of the info posted on the Nightrider website and read about how several magazines and HD have run tests on bikes with wide open air in and out, without changing anything in the map, with positive results.
My bike took a bit of riding to adjust and get rid if the decel popping when I upgraded the breather and pipes, but not too much. Just ride it and pay attention to what it's trying to tell you.
My bike took a bit of riding to adjust and get rid if the decel popping when I upgraded the breather and pipes, but not too much. Just ride it and pay attention to what it's trying to tell you.
Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 583
Likes: 4
From: australia
You do not need a download or any sort of dyno work for intake and exhaust, the EFI will adjust just fine. Check out some of the info posted on the Nightrider website and read about how several magazines and HD have run tests on bikes with wide open air in and out, without changing anything in the map, with positive results.
My bike took a bit of riding to adjust and get rid if the decel popping when I upgraded the breather and pipes, but not too much. Just ride it and pay attention to what it's trying to tell you.
My bike took a bit of riding to adjust and get rid if the decel popping when I upgraded the breather and pipes, but not too much. Just ride it and pay attention to what it's trying to tell you.
yep amazes me they think its a must, but when do guys do it too their cars after exhaust and sports air filter, Another mith you must check your valve gaps every so many kays/miles... But on their car the rocker cover has never been off. or that special oil filter that will give you a extra 8hp
do two dyno runs on same dyno same veichle you will get two different peak h/p graph
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY
You didn't state the exhaust or intake components so it impossible to lend an opinion on how it will affect the bike. The 2007 or later bikes with a closed loop system can adjust the fuel mixture within a range, but if you need outside of that range you will need a tune. The real question is how far outside the self adjustment range will you be?
What combination exhaust and intake will you be running?
What combination exhaust and intake will you be running?
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 854
Likes: 20
From: CT
You do not need a download or any sort of dyno work for intake and exhaust, the EFI will adjust just fine. Check out some of the info posted on the Nightrider website and read about how several magazines and HD have run tests on bikes with wide open air in and out, without changing anything in the map, with positive results.
My bike took a bit of riding to adjust and get rid if the decel popping when I upgraded the breather and pipes, but not too much. Just ride it and pay attention to what it's trying to tell you.
My bike took a bit of riding to adjust and get rid if the decel popping when I upgraded the breather and pipes, but not too much. Just ride it and pay attention to what it's trying to tell you.
wow. It is sad and just scary that so many people around this place spread this kind of misinformation and ignorance. It is absolutely not anywhere near fine running a stage 1 without some type of tuning. The new, or old style fuel injection on these bikes do NOT adjust for anything. A closed loop narrowband speed density efi is nothing like the mass air systems youre used to seeing in cars that are capable of adjusting to a point. The factory o2 sensors are narrowband and only see a very very small window in a very lean area. The sole purpose of the o2 sensors that have been added to these systems is to keep the engine running as lean as possible, as consistently as possible to cope with stricter emissions. They are not designed to adjust for anything. The only systems that are capable of this are afternarket wideband setups like a thundermax. I highly recommend a good dyno tune, it makes a massive difference if the tune is good. Not just power, but rideability, temp, everything. But what do I know, I've only tuned over 1k bikes, I didn't read my info somewhere.
As far as the original question, the air cleaner is the easy part. Like others suggested I'd put the exhaust on and wait on the air cleaner. Could just pay the dealer the half hour to install.
Last edited by vdop; Jan 22, 2014 at 07:09 AM.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,325
Likes: 7
From: SE Illinois
wow. It is sad and just scary that so many people around this place spread this kind of misinformation and ignorance. It is absolutely not anywhere near fine running a stage 1 without some type of tuning. The new, or old style fuel injection on these bikes do NOT adjust for anything. A closed loop narrowband speed density efi is nothing like the mass air systems youre used to seeing in cars that are capable of adjusting to a point. The factory o2 sensors are narrowband and only see a very very small window in a very lean area. The sole purpose of the o2 sensors that have been added to these systems is to keep the engine running as lean as possible, as consistently as possible to cope with stricter emissions. They are not designed to adjust for anything. The only systems that are capable of this are afternarket wideband setups like a thundermax. I highly recommend a good dyno tune, it makes a massive difference if the tune is good. Not just power, but rideability, temp, everything. But what do I know, I've only tuned over 1k bikes, I didn't read my info somewhere.
As far as the original question, the air cleaner is the easy part. Like others suggested I'd put the exhaust on and wait on the air cleaner. Could just pay the dealer the half hour to install.
Besides, why would you spend the $ for a good exhaust and intake, and not want it to run optimally? A proper tune is probably the most important thing you can do to your bike if you make changes to the intake &/or exhaust, let alone deeper mods such as cams, heads, etc.
Those that say that a good dyno tune isn't worth it haven't had one, and just don't understand the benefits...not only to performance, but also the overall rideability, not to mention longevity from having an engine that is running as it should with spot on AFRs and timing.
If you want to half-*** it, go ahead it's your bike. If you want it right, then get a good dyno tune. Even with just a stage 1, it makes a HUGE difference in how the bike runs.
Last edited by Sharkman73; Jan 22, 2014 at 07:58 AM.
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY
I used to race motorcycles so I know a bit about tuning. There is a balance between efficiently putting an air/fuel mixture into an engine and then getting it out again. If you want specific characteristics ( more torque vs more hp ) for instance you would tune the same engine differently. Many people just want the pretense of more power ( louder noise, style) but without a tune you could have less power.
Consider that there are two things you can tune, first is the ECU, or second could be the pipes and intake. My S&S exhaust and intake was designed to run within the operating range of the stock ECU. So I got better sound, style and modestly more performance. I'm also still running within the stock emissions tolerances. If I want more performance then I need a different exhaust, intake and ECU tune. I can make the air/fuel mixture richer too.
Most major aftermarket companies have the expertise and resources to sell complete systems (exhaust/intake/tune) which are tested at every RPM and every throttle setting. They have test data you can review and compare and in my opinion is better than the Frankenstein method of arbitrarily mixing components and then try to get them to work together.
Consider that there are two things you can tune, first is the ECU, or second could be the pipes and intake. My S&S exhaust and intake was designed to run within the operating range of the stock ECU. So I got better sound, style and modestly more performance. I'm also still running within the stock emissions tolerances. If I want more performance then I need a different exhaust, intake and ECU tune. I can make the air/fuel mixture richer too.
Most major aftermarket companies have the expertise and resources to sell complete systems (exhaust/intake/tune) which are tested at every RPM and every throttle setting. They have test data you can review and compare and in my opinion is better than the Frankenstein method of arbitrarily mixing components and then try to get them to work together.