I emailed the service manager at the local dealer about my Streetbob that I'll be picking up this weekend (3/24/07)...this is what I asked:

"Hello Mr. Smith,

My name is Joseph Stein... I'm scheduled to pick up my '07 Streetbob on
Saturday... I made the purchase with Frank and ordered forward controls,
VandH slip ons and a Stage 1 A/C ....What sort of tuning will be
performed to pull this thing together?

Hope to hear from you, soon!

Joe"

...and this was his reply:

"Hi Joseph, your bike has been mapped with a "break-in" map. The reason for
this is, not to put your brand new bike and exhaust system through the
extreme conditions that occur during the tuning process. The bike will be
custom mapped on its 1000 mile service after the engine is broken in, and
the exhaust system has been tempered. Please feel free to see me with any
questions that you might have on Sat. Thanx for your time.

Steven Smith"

...anyway, what do you guys think? ...I mean, it does make sense to me.... am I being BS'd, you think? ....they seem like an honest bunch of guys there, and of course, the 1000 tuning is for free

 

Actually, that sounds good to me. You don't want them dyno tuning it until it is broken in and that sounds like a Dyno tuning at 1k is the plan. I would just ask if the break-in map is appropriate for the exhaust and air cleaner changes. If so, I'd say they are handling your situation perfectly.

EDIT . . You should probably also confirm that the 1000 mile tuning IS actually a Dyno tune. On the dyno, they load the engine and run it through the RPMs and then tune it. It takes several runs and definitely puts a bit of stress on an engine. If they AREN'T talking about a Dyno tune at 1k, then this DOESN'T make sense. . .EDIT

Kevin

 

thanks Kevin!...i'll definitely ask if the 1k service will actually include a genuine "DYNO tune"

 

it only makes sense if you got a PCIII or SERT or some other tuning device,... which you don't mention in the OP. If you didn't get a tuning device installed as well, it doesnt make any sense at all.

 

intersting Thrillseeker... I mean, they never sold me nor tried to sell me on either a PC3 or SERT or any other tuner... You'd think they would have, right, if they wanted to reel me in? ....but they didn't

But from searching these forums and reading and reading about the mechanical tuners, it's my understanding that one would purchase a mechanical tuner (PC3, Sert, Fuelpack, etc.) only if you weren't going to have the dealer do the tuning on the bike for you ....but I am.... they're gonna do an initial tuning off the line, and then do a DYNO at 1k...so why would I need a mechanical tuner?

...is this accurate, or am I clearly not understanding things?...if I am misunderstanding things, PLEASE correct me and clarify it all, and pardon my ignorance along the way...otherwise, i anticipate getting really screwed....I'm depending on you guys' expertise, and not the dealers....after all, i know they're really just in it to secure a dollar- which isn't such a bad thing- except when it's done in spite of a shitty running motorcycle, you know

 

ok, you sort of get it, but not completely... not a problem

There are a couple ways to approach upgrades and tuning on your bike. It really doesn't matter if you have the dealer do the work, or an indy, or yourself... the options are all the same. In some cases, the choices you make might dictate the dealer be involved, or any indy with the right tools, but that is really beside the point for now.

1. make upgrades like intake and pipes. purchase an ECM flash upgrade to account for the changes. With '07's it may even be arguable that you don't need the flash because there are 02 sensors and the system is supposed to adjust to some extent. There is probably someone else here that can chime in on the process for the newer bikes with 02 sensors.

This option does not allow for any additional tuning on the bike. You are taking the stock ECM configuration and applying a "patch", sort of, to account for higher air flow through the system. Your bike will still run a little lean because the flash upgrade is coming from the factory and they have their EPA obligations that must be met still.

Dyno tuning a bike that has only had an ECM flash upgrade done is a waste of money because there is nothing to "tweak" to dial in the tune - NOTHING!! The only thing you will get from the Dyno run is a print out that shows your HP/TQ numbers

2. Install a Screamin' Eagle Race Tuner, a Power Commander PCIII USB, or some other device. By doing this, you can run the bike on a dyno and actually tune the system. Having an add on option like these is the only way to custom tune a EFI bike beyond the basic flash upgrades provided (sold) by HD.

If you had a PCIII for example, it makes sense that you might have a generic map that is close to your build for the break in period... then they would put it on the dyno and dial the unit in. Same thing probably applies for the SERT - I guess they call them "maps" on a sert as well, I'm not sure there.... concept is the same regardless.

Which option you decide to run with is really up to you and what you think you will be doing in the future. Many people to the stage I upgrade, get the flash, and are done.. and there is nothing wrong with that. On some bikes however, you may get some popping and such.. the only way to fix that is to get a tuner and dyno the bike (if you know what you are doing, a dyno is not always 100% required, but I would suggest it). If you expect to do a displacement upgrade, or cams, or other more advanced upgrades, getting the tuner is pretty much the only option. There might be some stage II maps from HD, but they will be for very specific parts. If I was going to spend that kind of money on the bike, I would want it tuned properly.

I think that pretty much sums it up.


edit: by the way .. I didn't know sch!t about this stuff until I started asking questions on the forums and doing what you are doing now, so we all go through it at some point. Once you start reading a variety of forums, specially over time, it will blow you away the type of conflicting info comes out of the dealerships.

also, for the record - my 05 is a 95" stage I (stock cams) with a PCIII. The dealer did the initial 95" kit when I purchased it. During the break in period I had the upgraded Flash map for that build. Once I was broking in, I installed a PCIII, put a generic map that closely matched my build, and took it to the dealer for the dyno... my local dealer is a Dynojet certified tuner shop and they actually push the PCIII over the SERT. They would have done the PCIII install for me, but I am a cheap bastard and like doing things myself.
This setup, along with a set of V&H 2 to 1 Pro Pipe, is producing 80hp and 88tq. I plan to do cams and head work next winter in hopes of the illustrious 100/100.&nbs

 

excellent, Thrillseeker!...thank you for the insight...you've placed things a little more into perspective for me...much appreciated!

...i'll continue to do research, and see what i can figure out

 

not a problem. I would go through your purchase agreement and see exactly what they sold you. It very likely is the flash for the upgrades you purchased... and there is nothing wrong with that... just don't spend money on a dyno if that is all they did.

If thats the case, I would take the bike and see how it runs before spending money on the add on tuner.

 

will do!....again, much appreciated, man

 

Just one more comment to clarify a little about the SERT option. The SERT is software plus an interface box. There is nothing to install on the bike. You plug it in and then you can use the software on a laptop to communicate with and reprogram your bike and then remove it when you are done. However, the interface box locks with your bike's computer as soon as you use it once and then that box cannot be used for anyone else's bike, only yours.

I suppose it is possible that the dealer isn't going to require you to buy the SERT and is going to use an interface that allows them to reprogram any bike. I am guessing they have the capability but don't advertise it so they can sell remap cartridges or SERT packages.

I probably made things even more confusing. All I was trying to say is that the SERT isn't something left on the bike. So if they have a universal interface, then they *could* do this without selling you a SERT.

One other note, if they DID sell you a SERT already or are going to remap the ECM (as opposed to an add-on signal modifier like a PCIII) then make sure you get a copy of the map file on a CD or something so you can tweak it later if you need to.

Kevin