Is Tuner Needed?
Tourer
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 268
Likes: 2
From: sonoma county
I've had several stage one bikes with tuners, and in my experience, they are NOT worth the money if a stage one is all you're gonna do. I have a simple dealer download on my current bike with SE airbox and slipons, and it runs MUCH BETTER than the $1500-2,000 worth of pipes, dyno tunes, Power Commanders, etc. that I stuck into my other bikes ! I put close to 2 grand in my 2007 Road King, had it in the shop three different times, and it ran like crap....until......my mechanic finally told me to "get that freaking Power Commander OFF that bike!".....I let him take it off, do a download, and the bike ran great. I wouldn't put a Power Commander on my bike again if I got it for free. With this new bike I went with a simple download, and my bike runs fantastic! I was told for a simple Stage One anything more than the download is a waste of money. Maybe if you plan on doing more later, you'd need a tuner. I didn't and I, and a lot of people I know, are very pleased with just the download. My BIL has over 60,000 trouble free miles with just the download on his StreetGlide. You're not hurting your bike with just the download, and my bikes certainly didn't run better (matter of fact they ran much worse) with all the tuners and dyno runs I laid out a ton of wasted cash for. Don't let people talk you into something you won't feel the benefit of. Like I said, if you're ONLY gonna do a Stage One, the difference between a download, and a tuner, won't be enough to even notice. All you'll notice is that you saved a ton of cash for gas and trips!
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,983
Likes: 2,141
From: Ohio
sounds like you need to find a better more competent mechanic. I had the download on my bike and it sucked. no noticeable difference over stock and my plugs were ghost white, not good. when I put on my PV with the fuel moto map it really woke the bike up and has a ton more power and runs over 50 degrees cooler on cylinder temp. facts dont lie and the dealer download is a joke
Last edited by hd4evr2008; Jul 9, 2014 at 10:29 AM.
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,081
Likes: 2
From: Cali
My facts don't lie either. I had my bike tuned by a professional race engine builder who tunes engines for professional motorcycle racers. Not just guys who race for a hobby, guys who race for a LIVING. He has over 30 years experience building race engines. I trust him. My bike with the download puts out just as much, and sometimes more, HP than those with a tuner. My bike runs just as cool, my plugs look just the same, as the bikes I owned that had tuners on them. I really don't care what you want to do to your bike. I was just answering the OP's question. I stand on the statement "for a simple Stage One (slipons and airbox), a tuner is overkill, and a waste of money". Too many people, who have FAR more experience at engine building than I, have told me that. I didn't just make it up. I want my bikes to run well, I want them to last. I've gone the tuner route with several bikes, and have been disappointed every time. I've tried three DIFFERENT dealerships, and had the guy with 30 years experience tune my bike, so please don't tell me " you need to find a better more competent mechanic". They all would have benefited from trying to sell me something more, or continue tinkering with my setup, but they were honest with me, and told me that a bike that has 02 sensors, running a tuner that bypasses, or eliminates the 02 sensors, is NOT a good idea. Not trying to argue, but those are MY facts. I LIKE the dealer download. To each his own. Ride safe!
yes running a piggy back tuner that bypasses the o2 sensors isnt wonderful. but there several tuners out there that still use the stock o2 sensors and flash your ecm and a couple of really nice ones that make use of wide band o2 sensors that will let you use mappings outside of the mid 14 range.
yes a $900 tuner is overkill for a simple stage 1. but even a set of xieds richening up the stock map is better than just the stage1 dealer download.
Last edited by slozomby; Jul 9, 2014 at 12:29 PM.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,983
Likes: 2,141
From: Ohio
your description there sounds far more like a custom tune than the 30 second flash canned epa happy stage1 dealer download. which is overly lean, and will not put out more power than a good tuner can get.
yes running a piggy back tuner that bypasses the o2 sensors isnt wonderful. but there several tuners out there that still use the stock o2 sensors and flash your ecm and a couple of really nice ones that make use of wide band o2 sensors that will let you use mappings outside of the mid 14 range.
yes a $900 tuner is overkill for a simple stage 1. but even a set of xieds richening up the stock map is better than just the stage1 dealer download.
yes running a piggy back tuner that bypasses the o2 sensors isnt wonderful. but there several tuners out there that still use the stock o2 sensors and flash your ecm and a couple of really nice ones that make use of wide band o2 sensors that will let you use mappings outside of the mid 14 range.
yes a $900 tuner is overkill for a simple stage 1. but even a set of xieds richening up the stock map is better than just the stage1 dealer download.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,477
Likes: 5
From: New Braunfels, Texas
Look the OP already has the download. If he is happy with the way it runs, then that's the answer to his question. If you ran a stage one and did nothing you're not going to hurt the bike, so no worries.
hd4ever did the download and it runs great, but there is no way it would run better then a properly reflashed tuned bike. I wouldn't be spending any money on a tuner if I had that kind of experience on 3 bikes. I don't know if you used piggyback tuners on all 3 bikes. If you used a quality tuner and got poor results then the guy doing the tune is at fault. You can't judge all tuning on your 3 bad experiences.
I do agree though, if your happy with the way it runs there is no need to spend anymore money for sure. I have about 600 total in my tune (dyno and tuner) and it was worth every penny to me. My bike ran good with just the XEID's but there is a huge difference between how it ran before and after. I do have a simple stage one with no cams...I don't feel I went overkill...I just wanted my bike to run it's best.
Everybodies different, every bike is different. If you are 100% satisfied with the way it runs, don't dump any more money into it.
hd4ever did the download and it runs great, but there is no way it would run better then a properly reflashed tuned bike. I wouldn't be spending any money on a tuner if I had that kind of experience on 3 bikes. I don't know if you used piggyback tuners on all 3 bikes. If you used a quality tuner and got poor results then the guy doing the tune is at fault. You can't judge all tuning on your 3 bad experiences.
I do agree though, if your happy with the way it runs there is no need to spend anymore money for sure. I have about 600 total in my tune (dyno and tuner) and it was worth every penny to me. My bike ran good with just the XEID's but there is a huge difference between how it ran before and after. I do have a simple stage one with no cams...I don't feel I went overkill...I just wanted my bike to run it's best.
Everybodies different, every bike is different. If you are 100% satisfied with the way it runs, don't dump any more money into it.
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 993
Likes: 1
From: columbus, ohio
if you are happy with your dealer download, then more power to you. i do disagree that all tuners are way too much money. a fuelmoto micro tuner is $199, you get as many canned maps as you want sent to you, and the guys at FM will help you fine tune the map for free if it isn't quite working better than a download. so, $199 all in, and unlimited free support from some of the best in the game....for the life of the unit. what happens when the download isn't quite running right? oh, they tell you to "get it right" you should do a dyno. more money, and then you are at the hands of typically a crummy dyno guy at the dealership. trust me, been there done that with my 06. so, how much is that 10 second epa compliant download costing you these days? and how much could that dyno run cost you? simple fact, if you do the download and it doesn't fix what you want it to, then you are stuck spending more money to try and fix it. micro tuner has software that allows you or FM to customize things to get it right.
Road Captain
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 655
Likes: 1
From: Wisconsin
I had a Street Glide dyno tuned twice with poor results. I know the tuner is at fault. I just did a Stage 1 download on my new Low Rider. It runs better than stock but not great. I will be getting either the Powervision or FP3 tuner eventually. I will not have my bike dyno tuned by anyone other than a well known expert from now on. Fuel Moto is only a few hours away. I might just have to pay them a visit.
Here's an overview of popular options to make it run better...though, as rooti said, it is not needed.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/ignit...uning-etc.html
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,217
Likes: 90
From: Detroit
A white plug is normal at the correct mixture, and so is decel pop. Getting rid of decel pop (with fueling) requires taking the mixture outside the normal combustible range. If it won't burn, it won't pop.
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: NorCal.
Dealer download on my bike was HORRIBLE. poppy, gutless, bad plugs. the works.
I got the powervision tuner and never looked back.
Come to think about, the ONLY people I know whos bike have the dealer download and they like it, is on the internet. NONE of those I know first hand have had a good experience.
I got the powervision tuner and never looked back.
Come to think about, the ONLY people I know whos bike have the dealer download and they like it, is on the internet. NONE of those I know first hand have had a good experience.