Evo wet sumping ?
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Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 36
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From: Belgium
Evo wet sumping ?
Hi all, I'm in the process of building an FXRS-SP.
Since I'm a slow builder (and a crappy one, too) last start up was about half a year ago.
After a while during the second startup a LOT of oil started pouring out of the vent line / air filter.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wZuokxNeLYGtRwvG6
Is this just an (extreme) case of oil passing trough the check ball / spring at standstill or should I be looking at something else as well ?
All oil lines seem to be in their correct locations.
Just wondering if I'd start rebeuilding this engine or swap it for an S&S V80.
Thanks for the input !
Since I'm a slow builder (and a crappy one, too) last start up was about half a year ago.
After a while during the second startup a LOT of oil started pouring out of the vent line / air filter.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wZuokxNeLYGtRwvG6
Is this just an (extreme) case of oil passing trough the check ball / spring at standstill or should I be looking at something else as well ?
All oil lines seem to be in their correct locations.
Just wondering if I'd start rebeuilding this engine or swap it for an S&S V80.
Thanks for the input !
Thread Starter
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Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 36
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From: Belgium
First update:
Took off the oil pump assembly.
No major damage found. Checkball + spring were already replaced by me.
Gaskets looked well. No damage teeth.
However I did find some small metal particles. (EDIT: it appears to be just rough casting..., not loose particles)
Took off the oil pump assembly.
No major damage found. Checkball + spring were already replaced by me.
Gaskets looked well. No damage teeth.
However I did find some small metal particles. (EDIT: it appears to be just rough casting..., not loose particles)
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
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first and foremost, did you check the tank before start up? did it have oil? was the correct amount added and no top offs without warming the engine up to pump back the oil?
wet sumping explains the exhaust smoke. but for oil to pour out the vent, the entire tank must have been in the sump. not much oil is pumped to the heads so that leaves c/c pressure forcing oil up the p/r tubes. the scavenge pump moves a lot of oil, more than the feed side so my ? is did you change any gaskets or such that could block the oil return. never say never, it could happen but it has to be a lot of oil where it shouldn't be. this is an evo engine?
wet sumping explains the exhaust smoke. but for oil to pour out the vent, the entire tank must have been in the sump. not much oil is pumped to the heads so that leaves c/c pressure forcing oil up the p/r tubes. the scavenge pump moves a lot of oil, more than the feed side so my ? is did you change any gaskets or such that could block the oil return. never say never, it could happen but it has to be a lot of oil where it shouldn't be. this is an evo engine?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 21,131
Likes: 12,691
From: South Carolina
Some reasons why an Evo or Shovelhead engine will barf oil out the breather:
Most common is the bike sits for an extended time, oil sneaks past the check valve and fills the crankcase.
When the engine is started the scavenge system can`t keep up with the excess oil in the crankcase, so some oil is pushed out the breather.
Not a big deal, just let the engine clear all the oil out of the crankcase, then set the proper oil level.
Another reason could be the scavenge side of the pump not working, possibly a sheared key in the oil pump.
Also, if the hoses at the oil filter are connected wrong, and an oil filter with an anti drain back valve is used, the oil will not return to the tank, so the oil will accumulate in the crankcase.
Most common is the bike sits for an extended time, oil sneaks past the check valve and fills the crankcase.
When the engine is started the scavenge system can`t keep up with the excess oil in the crankcase, so some oil is pushed out the breather.
Not a big deal, just let the engine clear all the oil out of the crankcase, then set the proper oil level.
Another reason could be the scavenge side of the pump not working, possibly a sheared key in the oil pump.
Also, if the hoses at the oil filter are connected wrong, and an oil filter with an anti drain back valve is used, the oil will not return to the tank, so the oil will accumulate in the crankcase.
Thread Starter
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Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 36
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From: Belgium
Thanks both for the returns.
- Yes, it's an EVO ('89) engine, no head breather
- Did not change or dissamssembled (except the check ball) the oil pump before
- There was oil in the tank, less than what I filled it with 6 months ago.
- I found both shear keys, altough I cannot confirm both were fitted correctly prior to dissassembly
- I believe I got everything right as far as oil line routing goes. However, will check the filter again
Could there be a non-visible failure on the oil pump causing the oil not returning to the tank ?
Could that be related to something else but the oil pump ?
I believe this is what's happening here, since the oil dump only started 10 seconds in of the second run (First run +- 20 seconds)
- Yes, it's an EVO ('89) engine, no head breather
- Did not change or dissamssembled (except the check ball) the oil pump before
- There was oil in the tank, less than what I filled it with 6 months ago.
- I found both shear keys, altough I cannot confirm both were fitted correctly prior to dissassembly
- I believe I got everything right as far as oil line routing goes. However, will check the filter again
Could there be a non-visible failure on the oil pump causing the oil not returning to the tank ?
Could that be related to something else but the oil pump ?
I believe this is what's happening here, since the oil dump only started 10 seconds in of the second run (First run +- 20 seconds)
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 21,131
Likes: 12,691
From: South Carolina
I think there is a good chance you are chasing down a non issue....
Run the engine, look into the tank and see if oil is returning.
If oil pressure is ok and oil is returning to tank, let it run for a bit so the oil can clear out of the crankcase.
Run the engine, look into the tank and see if oil is returning.
If oil pressure is ok and oil is returning to tank, let it run for a bit so the oil can clear out of the crankcase.
Thread Starter
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Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 36
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From: Belgium
OK, I appreciate your insight.
I'm guessing that means this could be considered as a 'normal' amount of wet sumping ?
(Did you check the video ?)
I still want to reduce the wet sumping to a bare minimum, so I'm looking to fit a new oil pump first. (Since new check ball / spring did not solve anything)
Anyone can advise a good oil pump ? Should I replace the shaft as well ? (Since this requires nose cone / ignition dissassembly I believe ?)
Thanks again.
I'm guessing that means this could be considered as a 'normal' amount of wet sumping ?
(Did you check the video ?)
I still want to reduce the wet sumping to a bare minimum, so I'm looking to fit a new oil pump first. (Since new check ball / spring did not solve anything)
Anyone can advise a good oil pump ? Should I replace the shaft as well ? (Since this requires nose cone / ignition dissassembly I believe ?)
Thanks again.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 21,131
Likes: 12,691
From: South Carolina
Until you get that engine running for a while you don`t know if there is a problem.
How long have you run this engine?
Disconnect that vent hose from the carb backing plate and route it into a drip pan.
Once again:
Start the engine, verify oil is returning to the tank, verify oil pressure.
Run it until the oil stops puking out the breather.
Service oil tank to proper level.
How long have you run this engine?
Disconnect that vent hose from the carb backing plate and route it into a drip pan.
Once again:
Start the engine, verify oil is returning to the tank, verify oil pressure.
Run it until the oil stops puking out the breather.
Service oil tank to proper level.
Last edited by Dan89FLSTC; Jun 15, 2021 at 10:37 AM.
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Thread Starter
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Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Belgium
Longest run I did on this engine was about 15 minutes.
It kept leaking oil (from various places I believe, hard to tell) so I stopped from running it untill I did some investigation.
Cleaned out the entire oil pump, will refit and check according to your recommandations.
It kept leaking oil (from various places I believe, hard to tell) so I stopped from running it untill I did some investigation.
Cleaned out the entire oil pump, will refit and check according to your recommandations.
Stage I
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Louisiana
Until you get that engine running for a while you don`t know if there is a problem.
How long have you run this engine?
Disconnect that vent hose from the carb backing plate and route it into a drip pan.
Once again:
Start the engine, verify oil is returning to the tank, verify oil pressure.
Run it until the oil stops puking out the breather.
Service oil tank to proper level.
How long have you run this engine?
Disconnect that vent hose from the carb backing plate and route it into a drip pan.
Once again:
Start the engine, verify oil is returning to the tank, verify oil pressure.
Run it until the oil stops puking out the breather.
Service oil tank to proper level.
Here is an issue that I am having. After clearing the oil from the crankcase from the wet sumping, I get oil blowing through the breather line after about an hour or so of riding. Puking almost as if it had just been cranked with a wet sump.
91 Springer Softail with Evo motor.